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Writing Battle spring micro!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slinkylink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by countercheck countercheck wrote:

One thing I've noticed is the duels seem to be a lot more evenly matched. I've only had one blow-out where one story was substantially stronger than the other.
Was that duel early in the going?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mpstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by countercheck countercheck wrote:

One thing I've noticed is the duels seem to be a lot more evenly matched. I've only had one blow-out where one story was substantially stronger than the other.

I remember seeing somewhere (not sure where) that stories are matched up with stories that have a similar amount of points. That way there's less chance of a moderately strong story being swept by 5 really good stories, or a below average story sweeping 5 poor ones.

If a good story doesn't get chosen because their early contenders were also strong or the tastes of the judges was pretty different than the typical reader, then they have a much better chance facing off against the lower scoring stories and "correcting" for their poor early placement. That's the logic that I recall reading.

I did notice that my stories, wether good or bad, were always pretty evenly matched. It must have been a fluke, but the same was true for my first battle (which actually I think had two of the strongest stories I've read even up to the fourth battle now).


Edited by mpstone - 25 May 2023 at 3:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by countercheck countercheck wrote:

One thing I've noticed is the duels seem to be a lot more evenly matched. I've only had one blow-out where one story was substantially stronger than the other.

Evenly matched is by design. The Swiss system intentionally pairs similar stories (eg. two 6-pointers) against each other, which is what makes them so challenging to judge!
Microfiction 2023:
[Romance] Riding Through Life ~ R1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slinkylink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by mpstone mpstone wrote:

Originally posted by countercheck countercheck wrote:

One thing I've noticed is the duels seem to be a lot more evenly matched. I've only had one blow-out where one story was substantially stronger than the other.

I remember seeing somewhere (not sure where) that stories are matched up with stories that have a similar amount of points. That way there's less chance of a moderately strong story being swept by 5 really good stories, or a below average story sweeping 5 poor ones.

If a good story doesn't get chosen because their early contenders were also strong or the tastes of the judges was pretty different than the typical reader, then they have a much better chance facing off against the lower scoring stories and "correcting" for their poor early placement. That's the logic that I recall reading.

I did notice that my stories, wether good or bad, were always pretty evenly matched. It must have been a fluke, but the same was true for my first battle (which actually I think had two of the strongest stories I've read even up to the fourth battle now).
Yes, Max said as much. The first duel is a complete crapshoot. The stories may be evenly matched, but maybe not. With everyone starting at zero wins, the pairings are random. But as it progresses, and the stories establish a W-L record, they should be closer to the same level. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corrie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by mpstone mpstone wrote:

Originally posted by countercheck countercheck wrote:

One thing I've noticed is the duels seem to be a lot more evenly matched. I've only had one blow-out where one story was substantially stronger than the other.

I remember seeing somewhere (not sure where) that stories are matched up with stories that have a similar amount of points. That way there's less chance of a moderately strong story being swept by 5 really good stories, or a below average story sweeping 5 poor ones.

If a good story doesn't get chosen because their early contenders were also strong or the tastes of the judges was pretty different than the typical reader, then they have a much better chance facing off against the lower scoring stories and "correcting" for their poor early placement. That's the logic that I recall reading.

I did notice that my stories, wether good or bad, were always pretty evenly matched. It must have been a fluke, but the same was true for my first battle (which actually I think had two of the strongest stories I've read even up to the fourth battle now).

Interesting enough, I had the same experience... the first duel was, by fluke, evenly matched... and were the strongest stories of the 8 I've seen so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote countercheck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2023 at 7:46pm
I know about Swiss rounds - I pointed max at them =) I'm just delighted it worked out. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cford Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 2:35am
I've done 3 Military Lampoon duels and one environmental. Would like to judge a conspiracy just for something different! Time does indeed feel slow at the moment. Roll on June
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 2:40am
Originally posted by cford cford wrote:

I've done 3 Military Lampoon duels and one environmental. Would like to judge a conspiracy just for something different! Time does indeed feel slow at the moment. Roll on June

I doubt that Elizebeth Holmes feels that time is passing so slow... Not yet anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote maxbjork Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 9:20am
Yes! Swiss seems to be working beautifully -- and THANK YOU @countercheck for bringing this tournament structure to my attention. I had never heard of Swiss-style, probably because I'm not a chess player, although I know it's used in E-Sports quite a bit too.

Funny enough, the first four Battles used something similar to Swiss -- back when it was only Screenwriting, and there were "Pools" of scripts, and the Duels were called Arbitrations. @Suave will know what I'm talking about.

Yes, this is my third time restructuring how the tournaments are done (ask me how much I love coding backend tournaments in javascript *eye twitches*).

JennK emailed me and asked about the WB Official Judges, so I thought I would share the response I gave her because I can imagine people are curious:

The "WB Official Judges" -- the folks deciding the two finalists in each genre (top 16 to top 2) -- are all people from our real-life community in Halifax, NS. Eventually, we'll have a page and write-ups on the regulars, but they're a fairly diverse group -- although they probably skew slightly more educated than a random set up people. Teona and I are the dummies of the group. There's a few Americans, and a few Canadians that were born outside of Canada. The important thing is that they're all avid readers of fiction (although a few of them also write). There is zero chance that any of them see Debrief, or the WB forums, and their Official Judge accounts don't allow them to see those pages (they don't have access to them). None of them participate in NYCM or WB or would be searching around on Discord.

As far as demographics, they will be 50/50 men/women. I'm going to try to diversify the age range a bit for future Battles, because the ages are 30-55, and I would like to make that more like 20-75.

The judging will be done at our (edit: real life house haha not a digital WB house)-- everyone will bring their laptops -- and they will not be able to see the tournament structure... so they don't know the seeding or how each story did in their house. So they're blindly reading the two stories in a Duel and choosing their favourite. Each match is best-of-three, and although there will likely be some discussions, the judges will not be openly debating their choices. WB Official Judges do not give feedback, although of course the Industry Judges do as per normal.

It's going to be a lot of fun! I think for those that don't mind having their picture taken, we'll do a social media post of the judging. I think we're going to have it catered -- maybe a bit of beer and wine :)


Edited by maxbjork - 26 May 2023 at 9:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote slinkylink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 May 2023 at 9:36am
Originally posted by maxbjork maxbjork wrote:

The "WB Official Judges" -- the folks deciding the two finalists in each genre (top 16 to top 2) -- are all people from our real-life community in Halifax, NS. Eventually, we'll have a page and write-ups on the regulars, but they're a fairly diverse group -- although they probably skew slightly more educated than a random set up people. Teona and I are the dummies of the group. There's a few Americans, and a few Canadians that were born outside of Canada. The important thing is that they're all avid readers of fiction (although a few of them also write). There is zero chance that any of them see Debrief, or the WB forums, and their Official Judge accounts don't allow them to see those pages (they don't have access to them). None of them participate in NYCM or WB or would be searching around on Discord.

As far as demographics, they will be 50/50 men/women. I'm going to try to diversify the age range a bit for future Battles, because the ages are 30-55, and I would like to make that more like 20-75.

The judging will be done at our (edit: real life house haha not a digital WB house)-- everyone will bring their laptops -- and they will not be able to see the tournament structure... so they don't know the seeding or how each story did in their house. So they're blindly reading the two stories in a Duel and choosing their favourite. Each match is best-of-three, and although there will likely be some discussions, the judges will not be openly debating their choices. WB Official Judges do not give feedback, although of course the Industry Judges do as per normal.

It's going to be a lot of fun! I think for those that don't mind having their picture taken, we'll do a social media post of the judging. I think we're going to have it catered -- maybe a bit of beer and wine :)

Thanks for the info! Though it is likely a logistical challenge having everyone at your house for the judging, I appreciate it from a security point of view.  I also appreciate that, while you haven't gotten there yet, you are shooting to include a wider age diversity in the demographic.

Also, I assumed there would HAVE to be beer and wine involved. Sounds like fun!


Edited by slinkylink - 26 May 2023 at 9:41am
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