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Victimized by a Nasty Drive-by Review? Take Heart.

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Noel Alcoba View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Noel Alcoba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 9:04pm
In this age of the internet and forum comments, it's human nature and par for the course, that eventually everything becomes a cross between Lord of the Flies and an episode of Big Brother.  That's a given.  But interspersed are valuable lessons, and encouragement for writers at every stage of their journey.

Whether people are outed or not, I really don't care at this point.

What matters to me is that we writers (wannabes and published professionals alike) do this because we have stories we want to tell, and we'll explode if we keep these stories to ourselves.  In other words, we write because we love to write. And we write because we want to connect to an audience.  Not all audiences are created equal, so not everyone will like our stuff.  But on occasion there WILL be someone out there that likes our stuff.  Personally, I write for THOSE people.  THOSE folks are (hopefully) my target audience.  I won't please everyone.  But when I DO connect, when someone DOES get what I'm writing, and LIKES my style, I'm good with that.

Sometimes I get that from this forum.  Hopefully I'll get that out there when I finally venture into publishing.  And even if (when) I get published, not everyone will like my work.  And my work will not be for them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote paulene.turner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by topangarose topangarose wrote:

[that "Mean Girl's spirit was what prompted this thread to begin with, and it was doing real harm. It really was. --So what to do? If you witness a crime what do you do? It's something all of us have to decide on our own. Sometimes it takes just a word of caution to stop a crime spree, sometimes it takes a village.



Well said Topangarose. We should try to be as helpful and supportive to each other as writers as we can on these threads. End of Story. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JingleBells Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 8:00pm
Hello again, here I am to drag it out some more ....

I guess what got my back up the most about this thread was the title -

Victimized by a Nasty Drive-by Review? Take Heart.


Victimised (Aust. spelling - I am pretty resistant to compromise) - Really?  Victimised by somebody who has taken the time to read (at your invitation) and review (at your invitation).

Nasty?  That is a subjective term and, personally, I don't review with the feelings of the story writer at front of mind.  I review the story and give my thoughts on the story.  I admit, I have seen some reviews that I could call nasty, and generally, I will take the time (if I have it) to do a more positive review on that writer's thread to balance out the nasty.  I will sometimes even start with "I disagree with the previous reviewer ..... "  But, I also keep in mind that the reviewer has read and appreciated the story and taken the time to write out their thoughts and suggestions.

I have even done a few gushing reviews on stories where I know the author has expressly said they don't want them.  But hey, it's my review, and if I want it to be gushing, you're going to get a gushing review.  Like it or lump it!

Drive-by Review?  Most drive-by's are, by there very nature, unprovoked, shocking, out of the blue and, most importantly, uninvited. 

The title of this thread completely mischaracterises (Aust. again) the nature and intention of this forum.  It is about the writing.

I get supporting less confident writers, but let's face it, I don't know by reading a story someone has offered for review whether they are less confident and in more need of positive rather than critical reviews. 

I know there is a Buddy System in place on this forum, I suggest we all make a greater effort to buddy up with these less confident writers, so they know they have a support group who will step in and support them.  I am happy to  be a buddy to anybody who would like me to be.  If you have received a review that has knocked you on your bum - inbox me.  Ask me for my thoughts.  Ask me to review your story.  I will happily do so and post a review on your thread.  It will be honest, but (I hope) constructive.  Let's buddy up rather than split along the lines that are developing in this thread.

Alex and Soot - I truly appreciate your posts.  I didn't write my comment with the intention of garnering any kind of personal validation, but it is noice (Aust - Kath & Kim ref) when that happens.


Edited by JingleBells - 09 Feb 2019 at 11:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote topangarose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by orion323 orion323 wrote:

At the risk of losing my one-star bad Yelp review NYC status, I'm going to respond to this fashionably late.  I've been ruminating on it for a few days and it's still sticking in my craw, so it's Festivus time.

I only speak for myself (as a perpetual peripheral in most social circles and virtually all social media formats) but I'd like to think there are more of us 'never-nudes' that log on anonymously...sitting up in the nosebleed seats drinking cheap beer thinking WTF is going on with these train tracks tho.  And maybe this is for them.  At least I can finally let it go.

This round is my 4th time competing in this NYC venue.  I'm noticing that, like the seasons, there seems to be a cycle in this forum.  Strangely, alternate versions of this thread have popped up every single time (although I think one year it was a poll on how to handle a bad review).  

Thankfully, this year Mattrick is not the person of interest.  He was a bonafide grade A dick and seemed to get off on it.  I'm not sure who this new person is, but if they are (as some of you have suggested) basically and openly here to foment misery, then I say name them.  Period.  No running to the NYC people, no dm's, no whispered innuendos, no going through every response to every story to find Colonel Mustard.  If they want to be an a-hole, then they should wear and own that scarlet A.  It also prevents the unnecessary self flagellating of people who think they may be the ones in the crosshairs.

An unfortunate by-product of these threads is what always seems to turn out to be a "thicken your skin, man up, dog eat dog world" approach and then the necessary flip side of people fighting that advice.

I read with interest the Myers-Briggs thread which actually made this all make more sense to me.  I'm 100% INFP (first suicide attempt at 8 years old...this world is nasty business for most of us).  I have decided that being in this world-but not of it- is the only way to survive the sharp edges.  It appears that those of you in the corporate/professional sector were the most stymied by this particular thread.  And I will put this out there:  you speak/write differently.  In a tone that probably/necessarily has to convey some type of professionalism or authority in your everyday work life.

As somebody who- thankfully-  gets to work from home in Star Wars pajamas with a host of animals at my feet- it can be jarring for those of us not accustomed to being addressed in that manner.  I think that's where a lot of this confusion is rooted.

Two cents for what it's worth

Now for the airing of grievances part.  Every goddamned time there is always always a subconversation in these threads about how to "handle bad stories" and the condescension effing drives me up the wall.  It's the main reason I'm responding to this because I cannot stand the corduroy elbow pad pipe-smoking tut-tutting anymore.  I try to make a point of reading as many stories as I can each round and will typically dm feedback to those who write stories that really get me.  I can honestly say I have not read a single story that did not have at least one moment of sheer brilliance.  As an outsider, reading a public conversation between people poo pooing what they consider to be bad stories and how to possibly stoop so low as to commit the time to address them is extremely off putting.  It's the main reason (other than the random point/star system that seemingly gives some members here some unmerited sense of authority or skill) that I don't post on here at all.  Maybe others feel that way too and that is why each consecutive round there are now fewer stories being posted.  

This is a $55 writing contest.  Not a Pulitzer Prize final round.  Your odds can equally grant you Romance-Dancing-Chocolates as they would Spy-Ass boil lancing-tampon dispenser.

Ease up with the hierarchy and pretension.  Studies are now showing that success in life is more determined by luck than skill.  The best writers I've ever known were homeless and they wrote because it was something they needed to do.  

For any of you who log on anonymously and are weaving back and forth in front of the jumprope of this forum trying to decide whether or not to jump in....who may have decided finally to do something more than write in a cheap notebook while you're driving...whose kids may have grown up or given you a gift of signing up for this competition or maybe you're going through a divorce.  f**k- even those of you who just want to feel like you're a part of something brighter than the sh*t show that keeps tumbling out of clown cars every day all around us...and you feel like this forum is maybe a little too sharp edged?

I would be thrilled and honored to read your story and find those moments of brilliance so maybe you can lift your head a little higher in the wind.  You can always pm me.

As Ram Dass once said:  we are all just walking eachother home




As one who was growing entirely weary of posters who continued to put up post after post quoting other writers "in full' ad nauseum, dragging us through read after read of the full content as if no one has already read it and stretching this dang thing out forever, (I know that sounds harsh, but geeeeeez.... give us a break)

I fear I've fallen into the trap myself as I am referring to this writer's whole post in this instance, so who am I to judge?

(For future note though... it's ok to delete in a quote your are responding to until you get to the salient point or point you actually addressing... just sayin')

But I digress from my intention which was to say,

To orien323;

I ADORE YOU!
  Heart

Having said that...  I do get Jingle's points as well. I'll just say that, that "Mean Girl's spirit was what prompted this thread to begin with, and that spirit, was doing real harm to writers.  It really was. 

--So what to do? If you witness a crime (or your perception of a crime) what do you do? It's something all of us have to decide on our own but nobody takes it lightly. 
Sometimes it takes just a word of caution to stop a crime spree, sometimes it takes a village.


Just have fun and write everyone. Write for yourself. Keep your power close to your heart and don't let anyone else take it away from you.




Edited by topangarose - 09 Feb 2019 at 9:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote sootfoot5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 6:48pm
Well, I was just wondering why no one had named the elephant in the room, especially when Zelda got so upset about it, and I was going to do it for her sake if for nothing else, but reading Jingle Bells's post two up, I won't say it.  I like and respect Jingle Bells too much and want to show her that we want her to keep posting.  

That being said, the forum isn't usually like this BUT it NEEDED to be like this -- this year.  There was something serious happening to too many people, and without people raising cain about it and posting on the offending writer's story site, nothing would have been done.  

So Jingle, I'm not naming because of you, because I want you to keep posting. And know this:  all that has been done has been done to protect those who couldn't help themselves.  You and I can, but not all are able at this point in their writing career.  They lack the confidence, and they need our support, however we give it, to let them know that we won't tolerate one person tearing them apart.  

PM me privately if you wish.  Soot
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Alex Grey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by JingleBells JingleBells wrote:

And here was me thinking this was a forum where we could all just post our stories, if we wish, and have our fellow writers review them, if they wish. Whilst being invited to read and review theirs.  I am really having second thoughts about posting any further stories on the forum.  I just never realised how I and my fellow writers were being perceived as some kind of privileged corporate world up ourselves destroyers of creative potential, purely because we enjoy this forum. That description is way off base in my case,  and I'd imagine,  many others on this forum. 
As far as naming and shaming a fellow writer on a public forum and inviting others to pile on because you didn't appreciate their review,  well wow!   That has a real "Mean Girls" flavour to it. 
Reviews are subjective evaluations of one person's thoughts on your writing.  Respond to the review on your own thread. Call out the reviewer on your own thread and you might even get support from other writers. Their review is open to review.  Do it there and then. You can't expect everybody to review the same way, particularly as we are overwhelmingly novices in this game. You do you.
I wish I'd never read and responded to this thread earlier. I enjoy reading and reviewing,  but I think I'm going to enjoy it a lot less now, and probably reconsider doing it at all.


Oh no, please don't give up on the forum - I've only just joined and I value your company in my heat, the wit of your writing and the generosity of your review. Please stay.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JingleBells Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 5:29pm
And here was me thinking this was a forum where we could all just post our stories, if we wish, and have our fellow writers review them, if they wish. Whilst being invited to read and review theirs.  I am really having second thoughts about posting any further stories on the forum.  I just never realised how I and my fellow writers were being perceived as some kind of privileged corporate world up ourselves destroyers of creative potential, purely because we enjoy this forum. That description is way off base in my case,  and I'd imagine,  many others on this forum. 
As far as naming and shaming a fellow writer on a public forum and inviting others to pile on because you didn't appreciate their review,  well wow!   That has a real "Mean Girls" flavour to it. 
Reviews are subjective evaluations of one person's thoughts on your writing.  Respond to the review on your own thread. Call out the reviewer on your own thread and you might even get support from other writers. Their review is open to review.  Do it there and then. You can't expect everybody to review the same way, particularly as we are overwhelmingly novices in this game. You do you.
I wish I'd never read and responded to this thread earlier. I enjoy reading and reviewing,  but I think I'm going to enjoy it a lot less now, and probably reconsider doing it at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (9) Thanks(9)   Quote orion323 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 4:23pm
At the risk of losing my one-star bad Yelp review NYC status, I'm going to respond to this fashionably late.  I've been ruminating on it for a few days and it's still sticking in my craw, so it's Festivus time.

I only speak for myself (as a perpetual peripheral in most social circles and virtually all social media formats) but I'd like to think there are more of us 'never-nudes' that log on anonymously...sitting up in the nosebleed seats drinking cheap beer thinking WTF is going on with these train tracks tho.  And maybe this is for them.  At least I can finally let it go.

This round is my 4th time competing in this NYC venue.  I'm noticing that, like the seasons, there seems to be a cycle in this forum.  Strangely, alternate versions of this thread have popped up every single time (although I think one year it was a poll on how to handle a bad review).  

Thankfully, this year Mattrick is not the person of interest.  He was a bonafide grade A dick and seemed to get off on it.  I'm not sure who this new person is, but if they are (as some of you have suggested) basically and openly here to foment misery, then I say name them.  Period.  No running to the NYC people, no dm's, no whispered innuendos, no going through every response to every story to find Colonel Mustard.  If they want to be an a-hole, then they should wear and own that scarlet A.  It also prevents the unnecessary self flagellating of people who think they may be the ones in the crosshairs.

An unfortunate by-product of these threads is what always seems to turn out to be a "thicken your skin, man up, dog eat dog world" approach and then the necessary flip side of people fighting that advice.

I read with interest the Myers-Briggs thread which actually made this all make more sense to me.  I'm 100% INFP (first suicide attempt at 8 years old...this world is nasty business for most of us).  I have decided that being in this world-but not of it- is the only way to survive the sharp edges.  It appears that those of you in the corporate/professional sector were the most stymied by this particular thread.  And I will put this out there:  you speak/write differently.  In a tone that probably/necessarily has to convey some type of professionalism or authority in your everyday work life.

As somebody who- thankfully-  gets to work from home in Star Wars pajamas with a host of animals at my feet- it can be jarring for those of us not accustomed to being addressed in that manner.  I think that's where a lot of this confusion is rooted.

Two cents for what it's worth

Now for the airing of grievances part.  Every goddamned time there is always always a subconversation in these threads about how to "handle bad stories" and the condescension effing drives me up the wall.  It's the main reason I'm responding to this because I cannot stand the corduroy elbow pad pipe-smoking tut-tutting anymore.  I try to make a point of reading as many stories as I can each round and will typically dm feedback to those who write stories that really get me.  I can honestly say I have not read a single story that did not have at least one moment of sheer brilliance.  As an outsider, reading a public conversation between people poo pooing what they consider to be bad stories and how to possibly stoop so low as to commit the time to address them is extremely off putting.  It's the main reason (other than the random point/star system that seemingly gives some members here some unmerited sense of authority or skill) that I don't post on here at all.  Maybe others feel that way too and that is why each consecutive round there are now fewer stories being posted.  

This is a $55 writing contest.  Not a Pulitzer Prize final round.  Your odds can equally grant you Romance-Dancing-Chocolates as they would Spy-Ass boil lancing-tampon dispenser.

Ease up with the hierarchy and pretension.  Studies are now showing that success in life is more determined by luck than skill.  The best writers I've ever known were homeless and they wrote because it was something they needed to do.  

For any of you who log on anonymously and are weaving back and forth in front of the jumprope of this forum trying to decide whether or not to jump in....who may have decided finally to do something more than write in a cheap notebook while you're driving...whose kids may have grown up or given you a gift of signing up for this competition or maybe you're going through a divorce.  f**k- even those of you who just want to feel like you're a part of something brighter than the sh*t show that keeps tumbling out of clown cars every day all around us...and you feel like this forum is maybe a little too sharp edged?

I would be thrilled and honored to read your story and find those moments of brilliance so maybe you can lift your head a little higher in the wind.  You can always pm me.

As Ram Dass once said:  we are all just walking eachother home




Edited by orion323 - 09 Feb 2019 at 4:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SLK43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 1:20am
Originally posted by PennyForThem PennyForThem wrote:

In amongst the kerfuffle and din
Be discerning about what you take in.
Take what helps you improve,
Or keeps you in your groove,
The rest, you should just toss in the bin.

We can't control what has been said,
Much less how it's been read.
So make self-control,
Your ultimate goal,
When deciding what stays in your head.

Heart

HeartHeart


Edited by SLK43 - 09 Feb 2019 at 2:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (12) Thanks(12)   Quote PennyForThem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 1:01am
In amongst the kerfuffle and din
Be discerning about what you take in.
Take what helps you improve,
Or keeps you in your groove,
The rest, you should just toss in the bin.

We can't control what has been said,
Much less how it's been read.
So make self-control,
Your ultimate goal,
When deciding what stays in your head.

Heart



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