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Tips for giving feedback?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote slinkylink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 9:12am
Originally posted by iress iress wrote:

I do appreciate when some puts a request above their link what kind of feedback they are looking for. Some people want gentle feedback, some want very critical, some are up for whatever. That’s helpful and cool. 
That's good to hear. I've started adding a feedback wishlist to my stories, and the feedback I've received is incredibly helpful. I've found that inviting an examination and discussion about what I think might be potential issues both opens the door for useful constructive criticism and also helps minimize the potential sting of receiving it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 9:28am
I used to always have a  note that I wanted honest feedback, good or bad.
Honestly, since I stopped doing that, the feedback left has not really changed.
Most of the people hate leaving brutally honest feedback. Which is nice...
Hints and maybes seem to work for me when giving advice.


Edited by Suave - 24 Nov 2022 at 9:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CamsynClair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 10:12am
I love this discussion! I read an interesting thing about brutally honest feedback a while back, and I don't remember exactly what it said, but the gist is that feedback doesn't need to be brutal to be honest.

Like, "Your story makes no sense" can be really discouraging, but "I didn't quite understand why [blank] happened" or "Could you tell me a little more about [blank]? I read it a couple of times but still don't think I get it!" are even more helpful than "your story makes no sense" because they point out specifics and lead to conversation! That's fun for the writers, too, imo, as my self-indulgent ass LOVES talking about my stories--ask me anything, I'm game LOL And like others have said, I think sharing constructive feedback from "I" perspectives really helps since it highlights how subjective writing is!

And tbh, I just ignore comments that go a little bit too hard for my taste. Sometimes I return the read and give feedback in the style that I wished I received, other times I skip those stories completely. 

My general feedback is "praise sandwich" style like many folks on here, but I'm more than happy to skip the crit if I don't find anything (which I often don't for stories so short--I don't like grasping at straws for crits unless I see something that I think may help the writer), OR if three people have already mentioned the crit I was gonna bring up.

I generally read the story, read the comments, read the story again, then write my comment. It is a bit draining to have a dozen people give you the same piece of crit, so if I see it a few times already (3 is normally my cutoff), I won't repeat it haha


Edited by CamsynClair - 24 Nov 2022 at 10:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrsnetpro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2022 at 10:25am
It's the same when managing projects although when someone misses a deadline the responses are not subjective. "Why didn't you get it done?" versus "What can I do to help you get it done?"
One will make someone defensive 100% of the time, the other motivates them to give an honest response and make an effort to get it done.
It's how it's said that is counterproductive. I really wish they would change how these are judged or just give it a try. Focus on specific areas, give a score and then tally them up. There will be areas that everyone rates high in, even if it's just "how well did they incorporate the prompt" "how effective was show versus tell", etc. When I draw a genre I've never written in, I want to know whether I succeeded. 


Edited by Mrsnetpro - 24 Nov 2022 at 10:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 12:03am
Originally posted by iress iress wrote:

Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:


I really, really hate giving negative feedback. 

Suave, I think your feedback is a good example of giving helpful / constructive feedback. Negative feedback to me is the stuff like “I just don’t like it.” I know, semantics. 

I was just thinking to myself this morning about this. Sometimes I feel like I’m supposed to give both positive and “needs work” kinda feedback. But I think the positive stuff can be just as helpful. And there isn’t always a “needs work.”  But I wonder, if I am sharing with  a fellow writer what I really liked (in a specific way), isn’t that constructive as well? Doesn’t it signal to them what choices they were successful with (at least for one type of reader), and more of that please?

I know I’m open to see how my writing landed in all ways. I’ve learned so much via all types of critiques. If I have something stuck in my teeth, I’m grateful if someone tells me. Even if I meant for it to be there, lol, I’m like, thanks for noticing. 😀 But, as a reader, I don’t feel like I should be pressured to hunt for the errant greenery if I don’t see any, lol. 

I do appreciate when some puts a request above their link what kind of feedback they are looking for. Some people want gentle feedback, some want very critical, some are up for whatever. That’s helpful and cool. 



Thank you! Yeah, I can't do anything like I just don't like it, lol.
I like to use perhaps, maybe, it just might be me....
I used to do the how I would like feedback, I would ask for fair
feedback and I would return the same. I have found that since 
I stopped that, that the feedback is almost exactly the same, lol.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote poplock10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 11:09am
I struggle to give feedback.  My stories have never advanced, so I don't think I'm a good enough writer to give suggestions to someone else.

In terms of receiving feedback, I often notice the feedback I don't receive.  When I see that my post has 32 views and 2 replies, I take it to mean that people didn't like the story and don't want to hurt my feelings. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mrsnetpro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by poplock10 poplock10 wrote:

I struggle to give feedback.  My stories have never advanced, so I don't think I'm a good enough writer to give suggestions to someone else.

In terms of receiving feedback, I often notice the feedback I don't receive.  When I see that my post has 32 views and 2 replies, I take it to mean that people didn't like the story and don't want to hurt my feelings. 

I don't know that it's about that as much as there are so many submissions that the only ones who will likely see yours are people in your group who want to read what others came up with. It is discouraging to take the time to post and yet see other posts that have pages and pages of feedback but there are people who have a following and that's not going to change. There are also people who will take time to read dozens and dozens of submissions and then request a return so in those cases, they too will get a lot of traffic. 

You don't have to be a great writer to be able to articulate what you think of someone else's work. I'm probably not going to post mine because the last time I did, I got no feedback and less than 10 views. The only one that has to like your work is you and if you're happy with it it's their loss. It's just unfortunate that there are thousands of submissions and it's not possible to get to every one of them. 




 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 9:05pm
 
[/QUOTE]

I don't know that it's about that as much as there are so many submissions that the only ones who will likely see yours are people in your group who want to read what others came up with. It is discouraging to take the time to post and yet see other posts that have pages and pages of feedback but there are people who have a following and that's not going to change. There are also people who will take time to read dozens and dozens of submissions and then request a return so in those cases, they too will get a lot of traffic. 

You don't have to be a great writer to be able to articulate what you think of someone else's work. I'm probably not going to post mine because the last time I did, I got no feedback and less than 10 views. The only one that has to like your work is you and if you're happy with it it's their loss. It's just unfortunate that there are thousands of submissions and it's not possible to get to every one of them. 

[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is all about reading others stories so that they feel obligated to 
do a return read and review. The more you read and leave a review, the more
reads and reviews you will receive on your story.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by poplock10 poplock10 wrote:

In terms of receiving feedback, I often notice the feedback I don't receive.  When I see that my post has 32 views and 2 replies, I take it to mean that people didn't like the story and don't want to hurt my feelings. 

I think what poplock is saying here is that lots of people have viewed their posts but not posted any feedback. (ie it's the difference between the number of views and the number of posts.) I can see why you might think that way, but it's not necessarily true

Some alternative reasons that people view the post more than they give feedback:
- sometimes I read on my phone, either late at night in bed or when I'm on a bus or train. I'm an old fart and I find it's far harder to type enough to give meaningful feedback on a phone rather than a keyboard, so in these cases I sometimes skip intending to come back later. I confess I don't always come back later, but if I did, it would still be 2 views to 1 comment. 
- sometimes I click on a title and discover it's a story I've already seen but I'd forgotten the title
- once I've commented on a post, I get notifications when others do. If it was interesting, I'll click back to see what others said
- sometimes I really like a story and I go back to read again or to share with friends or family
- sometimes my browser remembers a url and when I start typing in forums.n... it autofills and I just go back as the quickest way to get to the forums (one more click to home is less hassle than selecting and deleting the bit I don't need).

So, don't do yourself down about the number of views being more than the number of feedback. There are loads of reasons for this apart from not liking your story.

Instead, go out and comment on other people's stories and they'll be more likely to comment on yours. Don't worry about not being a good enough writer. Bet you're a good enough reader to comment on what you do and don't like. 

For me, the forums are the best part of NYCM. The judges are all very well, but I can't have a conversation with them. I can't ask them why they felt something the way they did; what they think of an alternative idea, or even what the heck they meant by specific feedback. But on the forums, I can have an engaged discussion. I'd hate to think anyone is missing out because they think extra views are people who don't like their writing!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:03am
Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:

 
The more you read and leave a review, the more reads and reviews you will receive on your story.

You can look at a member's profile and see how much they post. (on average - number of posts per day).

Just as an experiment, I took that for the most recent posters in this thread:

FireHorse (me): 1.09 posts per day
Suave: 1.89 posts per day
Mrs Netpro: 0.23 posts per day
poplock10: 0.06 posts per day

Absolutely non-statistical tiny sample of 4, but I think you might find the amount people post and the amount of feedback they get correlate to some extent.
Like so many things in life, I feel the more you put in, the more you get out.


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