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Free To Good Home: FFC Master List

Printed From: NYC Midnight : Creative Writing & Screenwriting
Category: GENERAL DISCUSSION
Forum Name: Creative Writing Corner
Forum Description: Discuss NYC Midnight Creative Writing Competitions or Creative Writing in general.
URL: https://forums.nycmidnight.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=21178
Printed Date: 17 Sep 2019 at 11:34pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.02 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Free To Good Home: FFC Master List
Posted By: nixie
Subject: Free To Good Home: FFC Master List
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 5:12pm
A half decade ago, when I first came to these forums, it was damn near impossible to find anything. Contest season invariably involved a ton of bookmarks and even more forgotten stories that I meant to get back to, or whose comments i had wanted to track but could never find again.

From that special hell, the Master List was born.

I was tickled to see that other people found it helpful too (understatement: I was blown away to see how many people made a continuous watch of bumping that original thread to make sure it stayed where they/we could find it) and have been pleased beyond measure to see it expand into the other competitions.

But last year's Master list kicked my butt.  

I had to take leave from work to manage the first round list. For the first time, I had to break the list into two parts because it got so big, it exceeded the character limit for a forum post. (Which Suave and I learned existed when the SSC list hit the limits.)  NYC has grown the contest rapidly, and it's around three times the number of contestants as when I first started this little endeavor. Last year, I didn't even get to read the stories of everyone who left me crits, much less all the stories I wanted to. It has gotten to be such a huge task, it has *replaced all of the rest of my participation, and I'm just not OK with that.

My hope is that a team of two will consider taking carrying this forward.  That would allow:
- a 1-50 list and a 51-100 list (half as much work for each person)
- one person to do Round 2 (Challenge 3) and the other to do Round 4 (finals), while the other person gets to read
- continuity, if one person has to step down - someone to tutor a new partner, &c.

Questions? Comments? Let's keep it in the thread so I am not juggling multiple DM feeds with people all having the same convo. 

Most important answer: of *course I will be happy to continue to partner with this person/these people, just as I have with my ML colleagues in other contests. I will answer questions, find solutions, and generally be helpful. I will still message 50 newbies an hour to tell them how to fix their link, their signature, etc.  I just can't own the Master List any more - I can't meet that demand and be an actual part of the community. Given that choice - I choose all of you!  

Been a great run - we really "changed the world" as far as these forums are concerned. Thanks for letting me play. 

Who's up next? :)



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FFC Ch1: https://forums.nycmidnight.com/topic22540_post284621.html" rel="nofollow - Weep No Longer, Angel



Replies:
Posted By: steph9289
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 6:34pm
I really like the idea of splitting it between two people. Makes sense since you have to separate them anyway!

Happy to be a co-master if you don't get enough volunteers! The screenwriting master lists keep me pretty busy, but my OCD brain really enjoys the process of creating it. LOL 



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Flash 2019 CH1 GR3 - https://forums.nycmidnight.com/ch1-gr3-sew-out-of-time-scifi_topic21817.html?KW" rel="nofollow - Sew Out of Time (Sci-Fi)
Flash 2019 CH2 GR3 - A Tale of Two Tails (Fantasy)


Posted By: nixie
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by steph9289 steph9289 wrote:

I really like the idea of splitting it between two people. Makes sense since you have to separate them anyway!

Happy to be a co-master if you don't get enough volunteers! The screenwriting master lists keep me pretty busy, but my OCD brain really enjoys the process of creating it. LOL 


It has gotten way too big for just one person, and I miss getting to read all the stories :)  Thank you!  I totally understand the OCD appeasement - that's where it started, after all. :)  

Thank you Steph!!

OK - 1-50 covered.  Anyone up for 51-100? :)


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FFC Ch1: https://forums.nycmidnight.com/topic22540_post284621.html" rel="nofollow - Weep No Longer, Angel


Posted By: steph9289
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by nixie nixie wrote:

Originally posted by steph9289 steph9289 wrote:

I really like the idea of splitting it between two people. Makes sense since you have to separate them anyway!

Happy to be a co-master if you don't get enough volunteers! The screenwriting master lists keep me pretty busy, but my OCD brain really enjoys the process of creating it. LOL 


It has gotten way too big for just one person, and I miss getting to read all the stories :)  Thank you!  I totally understand the OCD appeasement - that's where it started, after all. :)  

Thank you Steph!!

OK - 1-50 covered.  Anyone up for 51-100? :)

I wonder if there is a possibility of having more than 100 groups!! So far, it seems that each contest has more and more groups each year. Even screenplay went from 48 (last year) to 60 (this year)!


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Flash 2019 CH1 GR3 - https://forums.nycmidnight.com/ch1-gr3-sew-out-of-time-scifi_topic21817.html?KW" rel="nofollow - Sew Out of Time (Sci-Fi)
Flash 2019 CH2 GR3 - A Tale of Two Tails (Fantasy)


Posted By: nixie
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by steph9289 steph9289 wrote:


I wonder if there is a possibility of having more than 100 groups!! So far, it seems that each contest has more and more groups each year. Even screenplay went from 48 (last year) to 60 (this year)!

Wow!  They really are letting stuff grow.


Dear NYCM - how about solving all of this by updating forum software to something with a tag system? Cuz if, for my post, I could set:

[Year]
[Contest]
[Story Link? y/n]
[GroupNo]

And then click the tag cloud to select [this year] [this contest] [only post that are story links, not follow-on comments or unrelated threads] and then sort by [groupNo]

we wouldnt need a master list...

IJS


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FFC Ch1: https://forums.nycmidnight.com/topic22540_post284621.html" rel="nofollow - Weep No Longer, Angel


Posted By: nod1v1ng
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by nixie nixie wrote:

Dear NYCM - how about solving all of this by updating forum software to something with a tag system? Cuz if, for my post, I could set:

[Year]
[Contest]
[Story Link? y/n]
[GroupNo]

And then click the tag cloud to select [this year] [this contest] [only post that are story links, not follow-on comments or unrelated threads] and then sort by [groupNo]

we wouldnt need a master list...

IJS

Dear tech minded participant,

That would be like asking my company, a global leader in marine robotics developing cutting edge technology, to stop programming in C++. 



Ermm



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SSC1 Between Heartbeats-2nd
SSC2 https://bit.ly/2VB96F8" rel="nofollow - Down Payment - HM


Posted By: nixie
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 9:56pm
Originally posted by nod1v1ng nod1v1ng wrote:


Dear tech minded participant,

That would be like asking my company, a global leader in marine robotics developing cutting edge technology, to stop programming in C++. 



Ermm


at least you can cite back-compat....


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FFC Ch1: https://forums.nycmidnight.com/topic22540_post284621.html" rel="nofollow - Weep No Longer, Angel


Posted By: nod1v1ng
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by nixie nixie wrote:

Originally posted by nod1v1ng nod1v1ng wrote:


Dear tech minded participant,

That would be like asking my company, a global leader in marine robotics developing cutting edge technology, to stop programming in C++. 
Sleepy


at least you can cite back-compat....

True. We use C++ bc our tech is open architecture & military is a huge adopter. They approve of the stability. But let me tell you about the difficulty of recruiting fresh, creative minds with the appropriate experience. *sigh 




-------------
SSC1 Between Heartbeats-2nd
SSC2 https://bit.ly/2VB96F8" rel="nofollow - Down Payment - HM


Posted By: stephenmatlock
Date Posted: 07 May 2019 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by nixie nixie wrote:

Originally posted by steph9289 steph9289 wrote:


I wonder if there is a possibility of having more than 100 groups!! So far, it seems that each contest has more and more groups each year. Even screenplay went from 48 (last year) to 60 (this year)!

Wow!  They really are letting stuff grow.


Dear NYCM - how about solving all of this by updating forum software to something with a tag system? Cuz if, for my post, I could set:

[Year]
[Contest]
[Story Link? y/n]
[GroupNo]

And then click the tag cloud to select [this year] [this contest] [only post that are story links, not follow-on comments or unrelated threads] and then sort by [groupNo]

we wouldnt need a master list...

IJS


HOW DO WE GET THE ATTENTION OF THE NYCM MASTERS FOR THIS????


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2019 FFC1 G11 http://bit.ly/2SlMxmW" rel="nofollow - All the Years Like Yesterdays Departed


Posted By: Suave
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 10:19am
I can do it.  I have lots of time as seen in the SSC.  I think it would be too much trouble having two people to run it, simpler for just one once the first rush is over.



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https://bit.ly/2YdVjZq" rel="nofollow - FFC Magic is the game
https://tiny.cc/0h7m5y" rel="nofollow - Sp R1 Of Flowers, Trees, and Fish


Posted By: fioOxf
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 2:30pm
If you look at the bottom of the forums, the copyright on this format expired in 2018, so a new version is likely to be available to NYCM (as well as recommendable)....... MIGHT be worth mentioning it to the powers that.. 

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FFC '19 H58 https://tinyurl.com/y2jar8wn" rel="nofollow - Edgar's Last Cake (Horror)
SW'19 R1 H5 https://bit.ly/2GBtm49" rel="nofollow - An Apple for the Boatman (Ghost)


Posted By: Suave
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 3:20pm
My other thought on having two people splitting the master list is that only the
person that starts each section will be able to edit that section - not a good
thing when things go wrong.  I just think it is over complicating the job by
splitting it up. 

As I said, I will take the FFC on, but only if I can work alone. It is enough work
without then having to email back and forth with a partner who may or may
not be in the same time zone.



-------------
https://bit.ly/2YdVjZq" rel="nofollow - FFC Magic is the game
https://tiny.cc/0h7m5y" rel="nofollow - Sp R1 Of Flowers, Trees, and Fish


Posted By: nixie
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 6:23pm
Originally posted by fioOxf fioOxf wrote:

If you look at the bottom of the forums, the copyright on this format expired in 2018, so a new version is likely to be available to NYCM (as well as recommendable)....... MIGHT be worth mentioning it to the powers that.. 

The new version is not that new - they have not done much development on it.  phpBB might offer better options - but the True Love answer is "give it a year or so and see what happens with https://flarum.org/" rel="nofollow - Flarum ....

(And it's theoretically possible I am examining other options - cuz I would not wnat to whine to NYC unless I had a viable alternative to offer)


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FFC Ch1: https://forums.nycmidnight.com/topic22540_post284621.html" rel="nofollow - Weep No Longer, Angel


Posted By: nixie
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 6:29pm
Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:

My other thought on having two people splitting the master list is that only the
person that starts each section will be able to edit that section - not a good
thing when things go wrong.  I just think it is over complicating the job by
splitting it up. 

As I said, I will take the FFC on, but only if I can work alone. It is enough work
without then having to email back and forth with a partner who may or may
not be in the same time zone.

I admit I'm not sure how that first comment about being able to edit is any different than things have always been?

I have had great experiences coordinating and collaborating with folks here. It's one of the reasons I suggested some folks share the task, and work together so that each gets some time to be here as a writer, too.  Though I must admit - I didn't envision emailing back and forth with anyone.  if I were going to share this task, I'm afraid my cross-communication would primarily be "You posted on the 1-50 list.  post that on the 51-100 list so they can add you." (OK, it's me - I'd probably go paste the info in to the comments on the other thread lol).  

Since Steph has already stepped up, I'm hopeful a partner will turn up as well. I love your spirit - but I have to admit that I have some concerns about taking "a task that I feel has gotten too big for one person" and not only dumping it on just one person - but dumping it one person who is already managing another busy Master list. :)

If you change your mind about partnering, please do let us know!!

(p.s. - because this seems like a right place to point it out - folks, Suave was the first person to adopt the Master List and take it to another NYC contest.  So - the fact that this practice has spread as far as it has, totally started with him :) )


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FFC Ch1: https://forums.nycmidnight.com/topic22540_post284621.html" rel="nofollow - Weep No Longer, Angel


Posted By: Seacore
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 8:30pm
Suave is a good human.

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FFC CH1 H76 - https://bit.ly/2Slt5qj" rel="nofollow - Work To Be Done


Posted By: Suave
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Seacore Seacore wrote:

Suave is a good human.


Haha!



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https://bit.ly/2YdVjZq" rel="nofollow - FFC Magic is the game
https://tiny.cc/0h7m5y" rel="nofollow - Sp R1 Of Flowers, Trees, and Fish


Posted By: Suave
Date Posted: 08 May 2019 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by nixie nixie wrote:

[QUOTE=Suave]
I admit I'm not sure how that first comment about being able to edit is any different than things have always been?




What I mean there, is that one person can not take over and do the
whole master list if something happens to one partner - gets hit by
a bus in London, haha.  I do not like having to confer and communicate
when doing things as I work on something like this.  Easier and faster
to handle the first days workload and then just maintain. Not had any
troubles handling the SSC until the forum decides it is time
to flip-out on me, and having a partner doing half the list at that time,
who I can't contact directly, is not going to help.  that is my thinking
anyway.


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https://bit.ly/2YdVjZq" rel="nofollow - FFC Magic is the game
https://tiny.cc/0h7m5y" rel="nofollow - Sp R1 Of Flowers, Trees, and Fish


Posted By: nixie
Date Posted: 10 May 2019 at 12:19am
Originally posted by Seacore Seacore wrote:

Suave is a good human.

I concur.  If it weren't for him, all those other contests would still be swimming in forum darkness.  I can only imagine the karma points involved in that....


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FFC Ch1: https://forums.nycmidnight.com/topic22540_post284621.html" rel="nofollow - Weep No Longer, Angel


Posted By: GallifreyGirl
Date Posted: 10 May 2019 at 2:23am
I'm going to throw in my two cents --

There's no reason that anyone needs to be "in charge" of the Master List other than the initial post, hosting a Google docs spreadsheet, and some basic formatting & maintenance in the spreadsheet as the round goes on.

As an example, I usually make my own list that I work from, and here is the one I did for SSC18:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-93qnLJD7oOV8r-SRoh5olymKuM0VRmPDHA6f5unGzQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-93qnLJD7oOV8r-SRoh5olymKuM0VRmPDHA6f5unGzQ/edit?usp=sharing
(I did not make my own list this year because I was lazy, which is why I'm including last year's instead)

It usually takes about 30 minutes of work to create the spreadsheet in the first place; if the work of adding in people's forum names, titles, & story links were offloaded to the individual writers, the spreadsheet could be kept up with the tiniest bit of input from the list "master." 

It also has the added benefits of being: sortable, contained in a single document, and easily updateable & cross-checkable for subsequent rounds (still in the same document).

Possible drawbacks: apparently even though it's 2019 already some people are still flummoxed by Excel I guess? (Yes I am shaming you).

Ways to counter these drawbacks: If people can't figure out how to input things themselves, they could still have the option of leaving a forum comment so that the listmaster could add in the info for them; also the listmaster will most likely need to check periodically to make sure that people aren't messing up formatting etc in the spreadsheet. Still, I doubt it would be the massive timesuck it must be in its current iteration.





-------------
SSC19 R1G88 https://bit.ly/2RWuk2w" rel="nofollow - girl in the ghost dress lies 2nd pl
FFC R1G116 https://bit.ly/2LZAyu6" rel="nofollow - Gretl at Hansel's Deathbed


Posted By: nixie
Date Posted: 10 May 2019 at 2:58am
Originally posted by GallifreyGirl GallifreyGirl wrote:

I'm going to throw in my two cents --

There's no reason that anyone needs to be "in charge" of the Master List other than the initial post, hosting a Google docs spreadsheet, and some basic formatting & maintenance in the spreadsheet as the round goes on.

As an example, I usually make my own list that I work from, and here is the one I did for SSC18:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-93qnLJD7oOV8r-SRoh5olymKuM0VRmPDHA6f5unGzQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-93qnLJD7oOV8r-SRoh5olymKuM0VRmPDHA6f5unGzQ/edit?usp=sharing
(I did not make my own list this year because I was lazy, which is why I'm including last year's instead)

It usually takes about 30 minutes of work to create the spreadsheet in the first place; if the work of adding in people's forum names, titles, & story links were offloaded to the individual writers, the spreadsheet could be kept up with the tiniest bit of input from the list "master." 

It also has the added benefits of being: sortable, contained in a single document, and easily updateable & cross-checkable for subsequent rounds (still in the same document).

Possible drawbacks: apparently even though it's 2019 already some people are still flummoxed by Excel I guess? (Yes I am shaming you).

Ways to counter these drawbacks: If people can't figure out how to input things themselves, they could still have the option of leaving a forum comment so that the listmaster could add in the info for them; also the listmaster will most likely need to check periodically to make sure that people aren't messing up formatting etc in the spreadsheet. Still, I doubt it would be the massive timesuck it must be in its current iteration.



A couple of things to consider about that approach...

The reason we have chosen not to do this in the past is because hosting in google docs that way requires a generic "anyone who can find the doc can edit it" link - which means the links out to peoples stories are now on a public location rather than in the closed forum.  for many publishers, this can cross the line into considering the story "published" (it has been made accessible in an unsecured public location).   the closed forum protects the "unpublished" status of the work.

For my part, the challenge I most often find with shared spreadsheets is that every person who comes along sorts it a different way - and leaves it that way when they leave - which means it never looks the same twice. This can be confusing for folks who are not tech savvy. (I'll skip the stories of "accidental edits" and lost data...)


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FFC Ch1: https://forums.nycmidnight.com/topic22540_post284621.html" rel="nofollow - Weep No Longer, Angel


Posted By: Suave
Date Posted: 10 May 2019 at 3:29am
Originally posted by GallifreyGirl GallifreyGirl wrote:

I'm going to throw in my two cents --

There's no reason that anyone needs to be "in charge" of the Master List other than the initial post, hosting a Google docs spreadsheet, and some basic formatting & maintenance in the spreadsheet as the round goes on.

As an example, I usually make my own list that I work from, and here is the one I did for SSC18:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-93qnLJD7oOV8r-SRoh5olymKuM0VRmPDHA6f5unGzQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-93qnLJD7oOV8r-SRoh5olymKuM0VRmPDHA6f5unGzQ/edit?usp=sharing
(I did not make my own list this year because I was lazy, which is why I'm including last year's instead)

It usually takes about 30 minutes of work to create the spreadsheet in the first place; if the work of adding in people's forum names, titles, & story links were offloaded to the individual writers, the spreadsheet could be kept up with the tiniest bit of input from the list "master." 

It also has the added benefits of being: sortable, contained in a single document, and easily updateable & cross-checkable for subsequent rounds (still in the same document).

Possible drawbacks: apparently even though it's 2019 already some people are still flummoxed by Excel I guess? (Yes I am shaming you).

Ways to counter these drawbacks: If people can't figure out how to input things themselves, they could still have the option of leaving a forum comment so that the listmaster could add in the info for them; also the listmaster will most likely need to check periodically to make sure that people aren't messing up formatting etc in the spreadsheet. Still, I doubt it would be the massive timesuck it must be in its current iteration.





You don't know how much work in the background we do.  People have a lot of trouble using the list we have, in the doc your talking about people could easily screw up other peoples posts - I really don't this could work here.  I think the Format we have is the best for the situation.



-------------
https://bit.ly/2YdVjZq" rel="nofollow - FFC Magic is the game
https://tiny.cc/0h7m5y" rel="nofollow - Sp R1 Of Flowers, Trees, and Fish


Posted By: stephenmatlock
Date Posted: 10 May 2019 at 7:49am
Originally posted by nixie nixie wrote:

Originally posted by GallifreyGirl GallifreyGirl wrote:

I'm going to throw in my two cents --

There's no reason that anyone needs to be "in charge" of the Master List other than the initial post, hosting a Google docs spreadsheet, and some basic formatting & maintenance in the spreadsheet as the round goes on.

As an example, I usually make my own list that I work from, and here is the one I did for SSC18:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-93qnLJD7oOV8r-SRoh5olymKuM0VRmPDHA6f5unGzQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-93qnLJD7oOV8r-SRoh5olymKuM0VRmPDHA6f5unGzQ/edit?usp=sharing
(I did not make my own list this year because I was lazy, which is why I'm including last year's instead)

It usually takes about 30 minutes of work to create the spreadsheet in the first place; if the work of adding in people's forum names, titles, & story links were offloaded to the individual writers, the spreadsheet could be kept up with the tiniest bit of input from the list "master." 

It also has the added benefits of being: sortable, contained in a single document, and easily updateable & cross-checkable for subsequent rounds (still in the same document).

Possible drawbacks: apparently even though it's 2019 already some people are still flummoxed by Excel I guess? (Yes I am shaming you).

Ways to counter these drawbacks: If people can't figure out how to input things themselves, they could still have the option of leaving a forum comment so that the listmaster could add in the info for them; also the listmaster will most likely need to check periodically to make sure that people aren't messing up formatting etc in the spreadsheet. Still, I doubt it would be the massive timesuck it must be in its current iteration.

A couple of things to consider about that approach...

The reason we have chosen not to do this in the past is because hosting in google docs that way requires a generic "anyone who can find the doc can edit it" link - which means the links out to peoples stories are now on a public location rather than in the closed forum.  for many publishers, this can cross the line into considering the story "published" (it has been made accessible in an unsecured public location).   the closed forum protects the "unpublished" status of the work.

For my part, the challenge I most often find with shared spreadsheets is that every person who comes along sorts it a different way - and leaves it that way when they leave - which means it never looks the same twice. This can be confusing for folks who are not tech savvy. (I'll skip the stories of "accidental edits" and lost data...)


+1 on Nixie's statements here.

While we can ameliorate the issue of having our stories on the open web by posting only the link back to the forum where the link to our story is, the danger is that information will leak due to the kindness of people who don't think about the implications of publicizing a piece before it's been shopped around. That we keep our content behind a paywall means that we aren't in public view.

And accidental edits are a huge problem. Most people struggle just to get their forum posts and links working, but they do so in their own sandbox of their own posts. I can't imagine the chaos of multiple people attempting to simultaneously editing a shared spreadsheet, many who might not understand all the nuances of dealing with shared documents.

I'd prefer this not to happen, and I will state flatly that if this is done (a public spreadsheet) that I will unfortunately no longer share my private documents in the NYCM forums.


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2019 FFC1 G11 http://bit.ly/2SlMxmW" rel="nofollow - All the Years Like Yesterdays Departed


Posted By: GallifreyGirl
Date Posted: 10 May 2019 at 1:12pm
Okay, I have been properly chastised. I didn't consider the 'public' part. Sorry!

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SSC19 R1G88 https://bit.ly/2RWuk2w" rel="nofollow - girl in the ghost dress lies 2nd pl
FFC R1G116 https://bit.ly/2LZAyu6" rel="nofollow - Gretl at Hansel's Deathbed


Posted By: nixie
Date Posted: 10 May 2019 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by GallifreyGirl GallifreyGirl wrote:

Okay, I have been properly chastised. I didn't consider the 'public' part. Sorry!

No chastising!!  Just "learned a new thing" - which is important.  Writers must have the New Things all the time - else our stories will be full of the Old Things. 

I have great empathy for the much-easier-to-use tool - I am very much the same way (which is why I dump info from here into spreadsheets and databases lol).  When we do stuff like that all the time - it's easy to forget or not see how changing the environment may change the equation. It becomes so "second nature" that stuff like that just doesn't occur to us.

When you get that additional info - don't be "chastised into silence" - be "challenged into figuring our an ingenious solution" :)

As Suave points out, the MLs ARE a lot of work - and the forum-system features are the primary reason for that. (every tool has its features and its foibles - and this one wasn't really designed for collaborative editing...). If there is a way to make them less work - I haven't found it yet, so I'm not likely to.  Our best opportunity for forward motion is in getting more people thinking of more things. :)


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FFC Ch1: https://forums.nycmidnight.com/topic22540_post284621.html" rel="nofollow - Weep No Longer, Angel



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