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Deschain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Deschain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:50am
i agree with much of what you're saying CC. emerging consciousness, as far as anybody can tell, requires massively parallel hardware, not just software. Chat GPT is just another small step towards that possibility.

but like a lot of new tools, I do think there are potential ways people could involve this in their creative process, or that it could contribute to culture. for instance, there are voices who would probably never be able to write a memoir. ChatGPT (or something like it), with its learning abilities and unlimited patience, could perhaps enable someone with Down Syndrome write a memoir just by asking the person questions. or another possibility, I don't think ChatGPT is on a level that it would be capable of learning a new language just by interacting with somebody of that language, but when AI reaches that point, with so many unique languages and cultures and danger of disappearing completely, and not nearly enough linguists and ethnographers out there to save them all, something like this could be used to capture and preserve entire cultures, folklores, and histories before they disappear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote countercheck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 10:35am
Originally posted by Deschain Deschain wrote:

i agree with much of what you're saying CC. emerging consciousness, as far as anybody can tell, requires massively parallel hardware, not just software. Chat GPT is just another small step towards that possibility.

Yeah. I'm not even sure it's really a step towards that. It's a neat tool, and I could see it as a linguistics module for another AI - that's basically how they built Clausewitz - one AI to figure out game strategy, and another one to communicate with the other players.

Originally posted by Deschain Deschain wrote:

but like a lot of new tools, I do think there are potential ways people could involve this in their creative process, or that it could contribute to culture. for instance, there are voices who would probably never be able to write a memoir. ChatGPT (or something like it), with its learning abilities and unlimited patience, could perhaps enable someone with Down Syndrome write a memoir just by asking the person questions.

Yes. It absolutely could democratize language generation. I've been thinking pedagogically, it could also help students learn differences in style and tone by converting text from one style or voice into another. Or help people who can't write in an approved, prestigious voice to gain access to privilege that might otherwise be out of reach i.e. letting a young artist used to writing on twitter to produce a reasonable grant application.



Originally posted by Deschain Deschain wrote:

or another possibility, I don't think ChatGPT is on a level that it would be capable of learning a new language just by interacting with somebody of that language, but when AI reaches that point, with so many unique languages and cultures and danger of disappearing completely, and not nearly enough linguists and ethnographers out there to save them all, something like this could be used to capture and preserve entire cultures, folklores, and histories before they disappear.

This is both... plausible and not. Currently, GPT-Chat can't learn from interactions, and it's actually quite dangerous to taint your training set with new data. Phonetic transcription would probably be more useful. That being said: https://maximumeffort.substack.com/p/i-taught-chatgpt-to-invent-a-language is a FASCINATING article. To be clear, it's not actually LEARNING here, I think it's just adding text to a dialogue and rereading it to generate more text each post.


Edited by countercheck - 16 Jan 2023 at 10:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Popsicle Crows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 12:00pm
It has a use!
The comedians in this show used it to 'write' something in the voice of Trump, Mary Poppins and more lol.
Comedian Ali Hassan takes the news quiz | CBC Radio
Near the start of the show. 
If I ever used it, I would ask it to rewrite today's news is the voice of Ozzy Osbourne. LOL
Someone also fed it famous works and it made them pretty horrible, The Raven etc.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote copperdogma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by countercheck countercheck wrote:

I think it's important to recognize that the AI ChatGPT is built on is probably a dead end. It's not an emerging consciousness. It has no awareness of what it writes. It doesn't understand the concept of truth, or logic, and what's more, can't meaningfully interact with those concepts. It's just amped up autocomplete. At best, it's going to become a module in a more capable network of systems.

This is part of what makes it so cool as a utility and so terrifying as a source of misinformation. It doesn't tell truth or lies, it just spews endless streams of bullsh*t on a theme.

If you want to create an endless stream of bullsh*t for generating SEO maximizing websites or flooding forums and twitter, then it's your thing. If you want to generate weird and wonderful combinations of things, it can also do that. 

The worryingly part of it, from a professional writing standpoint, if it has a large enough sample, it can do it in your voice.

I'm not convinced it's a dead end. It's not aware of what it writes, but it seems the more parameters it's trained with (ChatGPT = 175 billion) directly correlates to how "smart" it is. There's a Chinese model that's already been trained on 175 TRILLION.

And I'd wager ChatGPT, overall, is about as "smart" as an average person on most tasks, and this is very early days of a very rapid phase of improvement.

Ideally you're right and it can never be truly conscious. Both to preserve that special spark for us humans and to ensure it doesn't decide to go Terminator on us. Ideally it would end up an extraordinarily capable assistant.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote copperdogma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by Deschain Deschain wrote:

i agree with much of what you're saying CC. emerging consciousness, as far as anybody can tell, requires massively parallel hardware, not just software. Chat GPT is just another small step towards that possibility.

but like a lot of new tools, I do think there are potential ways people could involve this in their creative process, or that it could contribute to culture. for instance, there are voices who would probably never be able to write a memoir. ChatGPT (or something like it), with its learning abilities and unlimited patience, could perhaps enable someone with Down Syndrome write a memoir just by asking the person questions. or another possibility, I don't think ChatGPT is on a level that it would be capable of learning a new language just by interacting with somebody of that language, but when AI reaches that point, with so many unique languages and cultures and danger of disappearing completely, and not nearly enough linguists and ethnographers out there to save them all, something like this could be used to capture and preserve entire cultures, folklores, and histories before they disappear.

I love your ideas of using it to help someone with Down Syndrome or learning everything about a dying culture. I can't stop thinking about this thing for exactly those sorts of reasons.

Today it's essential as capable as an average person, but one that can do tasks that would take hours, days, or years in an instant. It doesn't get tired or impatient, even with my ridiculous questions on topics I know nothing about. I just read a post about someone who has severe social anxiety using it as a very patient tutor and helping him form questions to real people that he didn't have the confidence to try on his now.

I think it could learn a new language, though. Not in its current form -- it doesn't learn anything from chatting with people in its current form. But I think it could learn new languages just from chatting with someone in a language it doesn't know. It already has an abstracted understanding of language and it's apparently one of the best translators out there already. I bet it could pick up a new language. It learns them currently by just ingesting enough text in a new language, so chatting with people would be exactly that but slower.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote countercheck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by copperdogma copperdogma wrote:

Originally posted by countercheck countercheck wrote:

I think it's important to recognize that the AI ChatGPT is built on is probably a dead end. It's not an emerging consciousness. It has no awareness of what it writes. It doesn't understand the concept of truth, or logic, and what's more, can't meaningfully interact with those concepts. It's just amped up autocomplete. At best, it's going to become a module in a more capable network of systems.

This is part of what makes it so cool as a utility and so terrifying as a source of misinformation. It doesn't tell truth or lies, it just spews endless streams of bullsh*t on a theme.

If you want to create an endless stream of bullsh*t for generating SEO maximizing websites or flooding forums and twitter, then it's your thing. If you want to generate weird and wonderful combinations of things, it can also do that. 

The worryingly part of it, from a professional writing standpoint, if it has a large enough sample, it can do it in your voice.

I'm not convinced it's a dead end. It's not aware of what it writes, but it seems the more parameters it's trained with (ChatGPT = 175 billion) directly correlates to how "smart" it is. There's a Chinese model that's already been trained on 175 TRILLION.

And I'd wager ChatGPT, overall, is about as "smart" as an average person on most tasks, and this is very early days of a very rapid phase of improvement.

Ideally you're right and it can never be truly conscious. Both to preserve that special spark for us humans and to ensure it doesn't decide to go Terminator on us. Ideally it would end up an extraordinarily capable assistant.

It's not a matter of size, it's a matter of structure. It's only able to replicate language it's been trained on. This is why it's good at simple arithmetic, but bad at adding big numbers - it doesn't understand math, it just knows that the next character in the sequence "2+2=" is "4". It's not adding, it's completing the phrase. If you tell it "My cow has died. How long before it is alive again?" it'll spout something about the gestational period of cows, not "sorry, cow necromancy is impossible."

It's REALLY REALLY good at completing phrases - this is what lets it write pretty good limericks and passable sonnets. The more parameters you add and the more hidden layers you include in the deep network, the better it'll get at what it already does well - and to be clear, it is ASTONISHINGLY good. It's going to seriously affect a lot of industries.

I wouldn't call it smart exactly. But like I said, once they start linking together multiple systems that are good at different things, then watch out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote copperdogma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by countercheck countercheck wrote:

Originally posted by copperdogma copperdogma wrote:

I'm not convinced it's a dead end. It's not aware of what it writes, but it seems the more parameters it's trained with (ChatGPT = 175 billion) directly correlates to how "smart" it is. There's a Chinese model that's already been trained on 175 TRILLION.

And I'd wager ChatGPT, overall, is about as "smart" as an average person on most tasks, and this is very early days of a very rapid phase of improvement.

Ideally you're right and it can never be truly conscious. Both to preserve that special spark for us humans and to ensure it doesn't decide to go Terminator on us. Ideally it would end up an extraordinarily capable assistant.

It's not a matter of size, it's a matter of structure. It's only able to replicate language it's been trained on. This is why it's good at simple arithmetic, but bad at adding big numbers - it doesn't understand math, it just knows that the next character in the sequence "2+2=" is "4". It's not adding, it's completing the phrase. If you tell it "My cow has died. How long before it is alive again?" it'll spout something about the gestational period of cows, not "sorry, cow necromancy is impossible."

It's REALLY REALLY good at completing phrases - this is what lets it write pretty good limericks and passable sonnets. The more parameters you add and the more hidden layers you include in the deep network, the better it'll get at what it already does well - and to be clear, it is ASTONISHINGLY good. It's going to seriously affect a lot of industries.

I wouldn't call it smart exactly. But like I said, once they start linking together multiple systems that are good at different things, then watch out.

Mmmm you might be right. I'm a programmer and I have trouble understanding how it works. I know at its it's a neural network, and the output is, like you say, basically a giant autocomplete machine, but there's something else going on at a higher level. The way you can refer back to what it generated and it understands, often deeply, exactly what you mean, is uncanny.

I have trouble reconciling "giant autocomplete machine" with the type of cognition it seems to have.

I've asked it to summarize the moral differences between the Bible and the Quran, generate and rank story ideas according to novelty, and add subtext to a story (it wasn't good at that last one, but it knew what I meant and it tried).

That being said, if it is truly just a giant autocomplete machine, and the dazzling cognition it seems to display is emergent from it's simplistic, autocompletion brain, what would a model an order of magnitude larger be capable of?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Beulah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 4:24pm
Sounds like it should be a love story, between the AI and the AI Detector.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 9:01pm

I think that is how they are now building their walking jumping robots,
at least that is how I would build them. One computer for the walking 
and moving and one for speaking and deciding where to go and how to miss sh*t.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote timmytimtimothy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by taaaylor taaaylor wrote:

I think it's a trash app and if you care about your fellow writers, you wouldn't use it for any commercial gain or contest of SKILL, full stop. Typing sentences into an AI bot isn't a skill. 

I have no respect for writing AI. Use your brain. Read a book. Take a walk. Do your own research. It's not even good as a search index tool because it will confidently lie to you. 


This x 1,000,000!

AI 'art' is anti art and anti artists. If you don't want to write your own story or create your own art, that's fine. But don't ruin it for those of us who do. I wish this app and those like it a speedy death. 
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