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Beulah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beulah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 7:28pm
That's totally bizarre feedback! And exactly, just wtf are you supposed to do with that? I got comments that showed me what I thought was really clear was not (I got suspense/thriller and created several twists, and I feel any more clarity would make them too obvious ahead of time, but still valuable to know they didn't get it, I just wish I knew how though so I could fix it.) But then I also got it was unclear why my MC was hopeful. To me when I said several times he really wanted to play, and then hoped the passersby who came his way, but missed seeing him, and he screamed out to them so they'd come over and he could play, that it was obvious why he was hopeful. I don't know how much clearer I need to be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beulah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 7:32pm
I read some that passed to the 2nd round that I feel didn't do well with the rhyming, very inconsistent and only hear and there, and they're like 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Some of us went to a lot of trouble to make them rhyme, and it's like it barely matters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LadyMRedd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 7:40pm
This is cross-posted from my story. Link to that post:

I was shocked (and super excited) to have taken 1st. I read others in my group and they were amazing. It really shows how subjective judging writing can be. 

Here’s the judge’s feedback. I’ve seen others share theirs and it’s been interesting and helpful as I look to Round 2 this weekend. So I’m sharing mine as well. Thanks to the judges for taking time to read and comment.

WHAT THE JUDGES LIKED ABOUT YOUR STORY

{1943}  

Oh my gosh! This was a wonderful, heartwarming, funny, sad, endearing story. You had me hooked right from

"We danced in the mud. We made such a mess.

Then you kicked too high and fell on your ass." This painted such a vivid, fun picture of the two friends - I just wanted to see more. The concept of repeated messages after "Star-Three" was ingenious. I loved the way you showed the changing tone and mood of Rose as she erased and recorded her message over and over. There were so many great endings to messages, but my favorite had to be "Too many clichés. Thank God for star — three." My heart melted at moments such as "does she remember her once-cool Aunt Rose" and "You know I love you. I’m sad you got hurt." The comments about Ken were too funny - I laughed out loud at

"No man is worth losing you as a friend.

Especially not Ol’ Needle-Dick-Ken." 

The ending was super-cute - I laughed out loud as she gave up on the voicemail and texted Steph! 

{2227}  

Dividing up the bits of information throughout the voicemails was a compelling tactic. Each voicemail  felt relatable and revealed interesting aspects to the story. You feel for Rose and her broken friendship.   

{2163}  

I love your voicemail frame, and that the rhyming patterns begin with Stephanie's outgoing message. The repetition of Rose calling works well also in bringing the story forward.   

WHAT THE JUDGES FEEL NEEDS WORK

{1943}

I thought your poem was fabulous, and I found it very difficult to find anything to suggest you edit. I was captivated right to the very last line - you made me laugh out loud so many times. :) 

I read the story several times, and still couldn't find anything. The only thing I can really say is that I wasn't a fan of the capital letters for the voicemail message, especially as this was the opening of the story. This is hard to read, and also feels like shouting. For me, it didn't set your story up with the best atmosphere, or the best impression of your writing - I wondered how good the story would be when I saw the capitals on first opening your submission. I would think about italics instead. I know you used italics at the end - maybe a different font would work for the text at the end? While it's best to avoid other fonts for your main narrative, I think a text-like font would work well at the end.

{2227}

The story feels one sided. Is there a reason Steph doesn't respond in some way? Consider adding some element about why Stephanie doesn't respond or maybe have her respond in some way. This could provide a strong resolution to the narrative.   

{2163}  

If anything, working with the rhyme to make it a bit less sing songy could help bring the story forward.  In some places, it would be more poignant to focus on the complex relationship than the rhyme.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 7:42pm
First up, I'm going to post my feedback with my story, not in this thread, since I personally like to read feedback with the story.
I lucked out with some of the best feedback I've ever had in NYCM - including an alternative suggestion on some lines which I now have to go back and compare to the original. If you want to read it and the story, the link is https://forums.nycmidnight.com/r1-g5-evacuation-suspense-thriller_topic49986.html?KW=evacuation

That aside, the question of how feedback is or isn't different in this contest is an interesting one. Some thoughts on that question and other points raised so far:

1. The rules of the rhyming challenge specifically lay out how points will be awarded (Rule 20):

10% Format (Adherence to paragraph #14, but not including Length)
10% Spelling and Grammar
30% Rhyme Scheme (Rhythm and Pattern)
50% Story (Writing, Originality, Character Development, and Plot Development) 

(From what I can see, the other contests are generally 10% format, 15% spelling and grammar, 75% story.)

So to be fair, however much we were all caught up on rhyme because it was new, NYCM made it quite clear that story is more important than rhythm and pattern.

2. If rhythm and pattern is around 30% of the marks, should it be 30% of the comment? Debatable, but if so, then you'd expect 2 of 6 (3 judges, 2 comments each) comments to mention rhyme and rhythm. On a quick scan, that seems to be the case overall.

3. It's long been an issue with NYCM that some judges give better (more useful / fuller) feedback than others. Looks like that's no different here.
Given this is a new format it's possible (likely) that there are more new judges, which may make them even more inconsistent.
I'm assuming that over time NYCM weed out judges giving poor feedback, but keep the good ones / the ones no one complains about. Makes it even more important than usual to provide feedback on the judges, both good and bad.

4. As far as cold beta reads go, I think that's an excellent idea.

5. As for submitting a recording to the competition, I'm against it.
Someone already pointed out that some people are great readers and others aren't. A recording will be about the performance as well as the writing. Nothing wrong with that in itself, but it's a whole different contest.
Recordings will also, over time, cause issues with anonymity. Same people, same judges. Eventually some judges will recognise some voices.

6. Regional accents and what rhymes / doesn't rhyme.
I suspect (some of) the judges need more educating on this. Same as in the other contests when they look at spelling, grammar, punctuation etc. I've been pinged for not formatting dialogue properly which I think was because I used single quotes - standard in UK, not US.

This is going to be harder with rhyme and rhythm since there are so many variations.
Possibly adding a field where you choose your accent might help - although I pity whoever has to come up with the list of options for accents!
Another point to consider though, is that if / when your rhyming story goes out into the wilds beyond NYCM, it will most likely be on the page without the benefit of a note telling people what accent to read it in. So possibly there is some justification for some of the judges' comments. One way to get around this would be to ensure that in any specific group, the judges were chosen to have three widely different accents.

OK, off to post my feedback on my story now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beulah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 8:02pm
I think it's a cute story but did notice I didn't see anything offensive from your MC beyond anyone else (she fit in other than not liking certain scents), so the note about showing that I agree with. But it would also be hard to do without also showing the people on the moon who accept her as she is, differ than beet-eaters or anyone else. So I don't think that detail would work unless you showed them way easily overly offended, or the moon people as really passionate and loud, or something. Meaning in showing this, also include how she doesn't fit in, and then later how she does.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeeHi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2022 at 10:39pm
WHAT THE JUDGES LIKED ABOUT YOUR STORY - 

{2249}  The fourth wall breaking and the narrator arguing with the main character is a very fun and creative approach. I really enjoyed how casually and comically evil Lyndora is towards the beginning, especially as we see in the detail of her throne "made of tendons, sinews, and bone" (which is also just a very inventive and strong image, by the way). A lot of the humor throughout works really well.   

{1788}  The dwarf was a very creative and intriguing prophet. Most fairy tales and fantasy pieces don't allow them to have such abilities, so it was a breath of fresh air to see Helluvate give her the vision with such authority.
Ferdinand's instant love for Lyndora was deeply felt by the reader. The plot point with her saving the daughter could've come across as too convenient or even schmaltzy, but Lyndora clearly hated seeing suffering (i.e. the newspapers) so it was a very thoughtful choice on the author's part.  

{2085}  A detailed and integrated story is completed within the limited word count. The writing is often descriptive, for example, the scene when the maiden runs away is vivid. The prediction of Helluvate creates the main conflict and defines the overall suspense. Also, Queen Lyndora's character has a nice character arc as she goes from being wicked to being caring.    

WHAT THE JUDGES FEEL NEEDS WORK - 

{2249}  While I like the meta humor of the ending with the "'No cliches!'" line, the ending did still feel a bit too neat and happy for my taste. I feel like there's more opportunity for humor here if some of the queen's old ways are still present. For example maybe she acts all good, but still secretly tortures a prisoner or two every now and then like she's cheating on a diet, or maybe Ferdinand still has to teach her some very basic morality, etc. etc.    

{1788}  The portions with the Narrator slowed down the pace of the tale, and they were a little confusing. It was humorous, but the identity of the Narrator's never revealed so it wasn't entirely effective. Why is the Narrator getting on her case? Is it an evil witch who won't accept Lyndora's new personality? The reader missed the connection, and it's worth pointing it out in the second half if it's an important part of the story. It could work if the Storyteller's got a bone to pick with Lyndora. She might want Lyndora to fit into a stereotype because it would make it easier to tell the story, one everyone would accept. If the author plays around with it a bit, and gives the Narrator a more interesting identity, those particular passages will be more meaningful. "The Mid-Evil Queen" has many fine moments. Once the author concentrates on the Narrator's character more, it will be a fantastic work of fiction.  

{2085}  Although amusing, consider reviewing the italicized comments for elimination as they don't seem to essential to the plot and risks taking them out of the story. As a suggestion to detail, consider clarifying the dialogue about the queen no longer being a threat, so the reader can quickly make the connection the queen was a threat because (in her wickedness) she had done things to the peasants in the past.

Sooo...they did but also didN't care for the narrator?  I do kind of agree with 2249's crtique, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lulumacmac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 2:15am
Re reading aloud - I agree that including a recording is useful on here if you want to but with judges, as firehorse mentions, it would give some an advantage based on performance/reading skill and what technology/recording device they have to hand.

There are some amazing text to speech software out there. My son uses dyslexia software that reads out his work for him and can choose from an array of authentic non-computerised accents (all of them children’s voices in this case!), so maybe in the future the judges can use something similar as well as reading it out-loud themselves - it would never be perfect though and judges may not have the time for multiple reads!

I did flag it would be good to have a mix of judges from different countries, as this is a global competition. But this might be a difficult one to manage 🤷‍♀️

I will return overdue reads (so sorry!) I promise but I just need to take a break from NYCM for a bit. I will be back! Big love.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote annemarie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 2:29am
I'm Australian, and in one of my early drafts a Canadian beta told me 'horde' and 'abroad' don't rhyme.  To this day I don't know how these words are pronounced in Canadian Smile  But I guess that is also one of the benefits of this being a global competition - there are betas from all around the world as well.
SS R1 Mystery
Rhyming R2 Romance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LadyMRedd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 2:36am
Originally posted by annemarie annemarie wrote:

I'm Australian, and in one of my early drafts a Canadian beta told me 'horde' and 'abroad' don't rhyme.  To this day I don't know how these words are pronounced in Canadian Smile  But I guess that is also one of the benefits of this being a global competition - there are betas from all around the world as well.

That’s fascinating to me. 

I’m from the southern US and to me “horde” would rhyme with “snored” while “abroad” would rhyme with “odd.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lulumacmac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2022 at 2:41am
Originally posted by LadyMRedd LadyMRedd wrote:

Originally posted by annemarie annemarie wrote:

I'm Australian, and in one of my early drafts a Canadian beta told me 'horde' and 'abroad' don't rhyme.  To this day I don't know how these words are pronounced in Canadian Smile  But I guess that is also one of the benefits of this being a global competition - there are betas from all around the world as well.

That’s fascinating to me. 

I’m from the southern US and to me “horde” would rhyme with “snored” while “abroad” would rhyme with “odd.”

I am now trying to make abroad rhyme with odd and struggling. It is fascinating.

My southern (with twangs of northernness via my parents) english accent rhymes abroad/snored/horde perfectly.

Definitely a good idea to get an array of betas eyes on the rhymes!
I will return overdue reads (so sorry!) I promise but I just need to take a break from NYCM for a bit. I will be back! Big love.
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