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Lessons learned from your MF feedback?

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jennifer.quail View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jennifer.quail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Sparker Sparker wrote:

Overall, I’m pleased with the specific feedback offered and the opportunity to review the choices I made, and let’s face it, in MF100 we do make a lot of deliberate word choices! 


The full feedback from judges and my response to it are posted to the CRITICAL MALFUNCTION thread. 


There seems to be a disproportionate weight applied to judges feedback by many entrants. The judges were simply three more readers giving their impressions.  For me the value is always right here in the forum readership and feedback.


Well, the judges are the only ones who determine whether or not you move on, so as far as it being a contest is concerned they are kind of important, and since which group reads your story is random, it's easy to feel screwed by the judging. 


Quote That isn’t to say the judges are wankers. I went and had a click through some of the judges’ profiles. Are you kidding me? There are some hefty credentials sitting in there and even the least of them I would still be glad to have read my work, even if they only give it a cursory read and scribble a less than meaningful line about it. They aren’t the ones sucking at this gig. 


LOL. The "some of our judges" page has never changed. We have no way to know whether anyone listed (and their credentials being impressive is...really subjective) is still involved or they just left it up from when it was strictly a screenplay contest. What we DO know with certainty is at least one judge was fired thanks to the forums because our posting feedback meant they got caught cutting and pasting the same comments to every entry. We also know for certain they hire judges by advertising on Craigslist and anyone can apply.  Heck, I'm now somewhat suspicious about whether they really don't read the forum as one bit of positive feedback I got seemed pointedly targeted to contradict a common theme in forum feedback (I happen to think the judge is right, but it's still suspicious.) 


Random support's cute and all, but ultimately, we're paying to be in a contest with allegedly fair judging by competent people (with a probably-unavoidable element of unfairness that with 6900 entries, even ones that shouldn't take more than a few minutes each, not everyone is judged by the same people.) Sure, some complaints are just people not liking being told their story's not very good, but if anything the forum causes the problems there since 98% of forum feedback is positive no matter what.

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HardtobetheBard View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HardtobetheBard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 11:11am
Speaking of the judges, does everyone in your group get judged by the same 3 people? So e.g. In group 28 did we all have the same judges? That seems like it would be fairer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KOLynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 11:25am
AutumnBe and I were in the same group and we got judged by the same three people it seems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GenieAZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 11:46am
Originally posted by HardtobetheBard HardtobetheBard wrote:

Speaking of the judges, does everyone in your group get judged by the same 3 people? So e.g. In group 28 did we all have the same judges? That seems like it would be fairer.

My group seems to all have the same three judges.

There are some very well written and entertaining stories that are not going through. Only 15 can advance, and all else being equal, sometimes the judges just respond to someone else’s writing on that day.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theinquisitor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 11:58am
Originally posted by HardtobetheBard HardtobetheBard wrote:

Speaking of the judges, does everyone in your group get judged by the same 3 people? So e.g. In group 28 did we all have the same judges? That seems like it would be fairer.

Yes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HardtobetheBard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 12:34pm
That's cool to know, thank you :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TeeHi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 1:00pm
(Group 16 / SciFi / watching television / "smooth")

THE VOYEUR

Home from the Aeration Mine, Dahlia slid her atmosphere-suit off in one smooth motion. Too tired to eat, she instructed the All-Entertainments-Box (AEB System 1TV1), "Telli...General Hospital 2210."

The AI system responded, "On, now." The screensaver's fabricated eyes closed, fading away to the soap in its 247th year. Dahlia's orbs grew heavy as she watched the love quadrangle play across the iridescent screen.

Drifting off to sleep, Dahlia had no idea that "watching television" not only referred to something she did but also indicated what the box became when she was unconscious.

The AI chuckled to Itself. And continued watching.

========================================================

WHAT THE JUDGES LIKED ABOUT YOUR STORY :
{2011}  General Hospital still being made in the year 2210 is both clever and funny! Dahlia's atmosphere suit was also a nice detail that clues readers into the kind of world she lives in (or on). Good work!  
 - Thanks!

{1984}  The updated names you gave for the technology here was really fun. The concept is pretty interesting too in that the television becomes a passive onlooker after Dahlia falls asleep.  
- Thank you!

{2061}  I like this strange idea that as you watch the TV the TV watches you. I also really enjoy that General Hospital is on for so long.
- Thankies!


WHAT THE JUDGES FEEL NEEDS WORK :
{2011}  Tonally speaking, the last two paragraphs (starting with, "Drifting off to sleep," are a bit out of place in the story. Why is it ironic that Dahlia doesn't know she is watching television?  
- So clearly, #2011 didn't read with comprehension, or he/she would know that the irony was in the television watching her! i.e. the opposite of what usually happens.
 
{1984}  It's not clear what the television's motive for watching Dahlia is supposed to be, so the twist at the end felt a bit more strange than relevant. There's also a general lack of significance to the plot, since this seems like any other day for Dahlia. Why tell the story of this day rather than the previous day or the next day?  
- Well, this is the norm, but Dahlia doesn't know it, so it doesn't matter which day it is, any day will do. Eventually, something will follow, but this is what happens every day to this point.

{2061}  Dahlia is interesting to me because she seems like a typical overworked small-town woman who just wants to unwind. I wonder if we can get just a little more about her in this world: her look, her likes/dislikes...this will also help us understand, maybe, why the AI is fascinated to watch her.
- Is it okay if I had another 100 words, all hyphenated so's not to increase the word count, to add these things in?!

----------

This is my first year, so while I learned some things from reading the forums ahead of time, there's nothing like living it. So, I was thinking that these 100-word stories were more like "slice of life" tidbit tales that don't have to include everything, so not all questions would be answered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MystressGaia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 3:28pm
I'm still digesting how I feel about the judging and feedback.

My story:
Group 6 - Action and/or Adventure / Opening a door / separate

Photograph

Sleek. Dangerous. Hands gripped the wheel. Rugged terrain. Jungle scents. I see my companion. Slithering on elbows, knees through tall grass. Silently stalking. Mosquitoes landed on skin. Pools of blood leave welts behind. He makes no sound. I survey. Sun glints off black fur. A panther lazes. Hands tremble. Watching. Waiting. Click. The creature hears.  Run, I think. Heart thumps. I watch. Run. I can’t let us get separated. I open the passenger door. Tense. Twigs crush violently. Camera held close. He jumps inside. Go. The beast stalks. Hearts racing, blood pumping, he lifts the camera. Click. Click. Click.
__________
Positive Feedback:

{2059}
I was really intrigued by how you chose to tell this story (through many action words and one word sentences). It's a very unique choice and helped the story stand out (while also moving the story forward nicely). I also liked the story's conclusion with the 'Click. Click. Click'. A very dynamic, rhythmic way of ending the piece. 

{1909} 
I really enjoyed the unique writing style in this story. The pace was incredibly fast and thrilling.

{1626}  Gorgeous, engrossing writing. Absolutely loved this line: "Sun glints off black fur." This was great as well: "Twigs crush violently." Wonderful take on the action genre. I was captivating from the very beginning.
++++++++
Negative or Stuff that needs work-

{2059}  There's a great deal of action/description in this piece (which is much appreciated), but there were moments when I felt a bit disconnected from the story. I do think that, when highlighting action, emotional investment can sometimes fall to the wayside. Why should we invest in this narrator? Why should we care about his/her success and survival. It may help to offer one or two character details to really build that connection and make this character feel specific to the story. +I get the emotional/caring element not sure how to pull it off in 100 words+


{1909}  Though I found the writing style interesting, I struggled to follow the actions that took place at the end of the story. +Between the title and the click, I thought it was pretty self explanatory+

{1626} 
I hesitate to say this because brevity is a great attribute of your writing, but I could've used one or two longer sentences. Brevity is generally preferred to lengthy sentences, but if there's no break from it, the pacing can feel relentless. +I find this ironic in the 100 word challenge. And my disagreement was the style was unintentional but I thought it's what made the story work and stand out.+
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FireHorse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 7:44pm
I've posted my feedback in full on my original post.

Two judges were helpful. The forums were helpful.

One judge left brief comments basically saying I incorporated the prompt word well but the core premise of my story did not work for them. Which is fair enough as an opinion, but not exactly helpful feedback on how to improve either the story or my writing in general. 

I've been saying for a long time that the forum feedback is at least as helpful as the judges. This is the first time I've had a judge whose feedback didn't give me anything to work with at all.

One thing I have learned though:
A recurring theme from judges and forum is that I have too much story / too many characters for the word length. That's something I need to take on board - this forum is the only place I've done such short pieces, so it's a learning curve.
I thought I'd done better with this year's Flash, but forum feedback still suggests too many characters. Sigh...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GenieAZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2021 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by FireHorse FireHorse wrote:


A recurring theme from judges and forum is that I have too much story / too many characters for the word length. That's something I need to take on board - this forum is the only place I've done such short pieces, so it's a learning curve.

This. Is. Me.

This is my third NYCM competition, and I think I am getting better at making sure the scope of my story is right for the word count.  That sometimes means that a good idea for a story has to be set aside because I cannot tell it in 100 words, or 250 words, or even in 1,000 words. But it’s a good discipline.  If there is a call for a 300 word submission, the editor wants a complete story in 300 words.  They don’t want to hear that I need 200 more words for world building, or 50 more words for personality. I am grateful to learn this lesson.
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