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Suave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by timmytimtimothy timmytimtimothy wrote:

Originally posted by taaaylor taaaylor wrote:

I think it's a trash app and if you care about your fellow writers, you wouldn't use it for any commercial gain or contest of SKILL, full stop. Typing sentences into an AI bot isn't a skill. 

I have no respect for writing AI. Use your brain. Read a book. Take a walk. Do your own research. It's not even good as a search index tool because it will confidently lie to you. 


This x 1,000,000!

AI 'art' is anti art and anti artists. If you don't want to write your own story or create your own art, that's fine. But don't ruin it for those of us who do. I wish this app and those like it a speedy death. 

Sadly, when was the last time anyone with evil intent thought about others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote copperdogma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:

Originally posted by timmytimtimothy timmytimtimothy wrote:

Originally posted by taaaylor taaaylor wrote:

I think it's a trash app and if you care about your fellow writers, you wouldn't use it for any commercial gain or contest of SKILL, full stop. Typing sentences into an AI bot isn't a skill. 

I have no respect for writing AI. Use your brain. Read a book. Take a walk. Do your own research. It's not even good as a search index tool because it will confidently lie to you. 


This x 1,000,000!

AI 'art' is anti art and anti artists. If you don't want to write your own story or create your own art, that's fine. But don't ruin it for those of us who do. I wish this app and those like it a speedy death. 

Sadly, when was the last time anyone with evil intent thought about others.

I'm interested in talking about it because it's here now, it's already having an impact, and the impact of all AI is going to have a massive impact in the near future. My favourite was of dealing with it is to discuss it and think about it to figure out what life will be like, the pros and cons, and how we can best adapt.

It's not inherently evil. Not that you were saying it was. It's more like a knife. An incredibly useful, versatile tool that can be used for harm. Sometimes unwittingly.


Edited by copperdogma - 16 Jan 2023 at 11:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote timmytimtimothy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by copperdogma copperdogma wrote:

Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:

Originally posted by timmytimtimothy timmytimtimothy wrote:

Originally posted by taaaylor taaaylor wrote:

I think it's a trash app and if you care about your fellow writers, you wouldn't use it for any commercial gain or contest of SKILL, full stop. Typing sentences into an AI bot isn't a skill. 

I have no respect for writing AI. Use your brain. Read a book. Take a walk. Do your own research. It's not even good as a search index tool because it will confidently lie to you. 


This x 1,000,000!

AI 'art' is anti art and anti artists. If you don't want to write your own story or create your own art, that's fine. But don't ruin it for those of us who do. I wish this app and those like it a speedy death. 

Sadly, when was the last time anyone with evil intent thought about others.

I'm interested in talking about it because it's here now, it's already having an impact, and the impact of all AI is going to have a massive impact in the near future. My favourite was of dealing with it is to discuss it and think about it to figure out what life will be like, the pros and cons, and how we can best adapt.

It's not inherently evil. Not that you were saying it was. It's more like a knife. An incredibly useful, versatile tool that can be used for harm. Sometimes unwittingly.

I think plagiarising artists' work to form AI's initial learning IS evil, in the immoral, unethical and greed-driven sense. There may be some practical uses for this for people who are missing the point, such as writing boring commercial/corporate copy etc. But then what's the point of writing as an expressive form if we're bombarded with an infinite stream of unconsciously produced words?

I'm a copywriter by profession and a writer of fiction by passion, so needless to say, I absolutely loathe this. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote copperdogma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2023 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by timmytimtimothy timmytimtimothy wrote:

Originally posted by copperdogma copperdogma wrote:

Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:

Originally posted by timmytimtimothy timmytimtimothy wrote:

Originally posted by taaaylor taaaylor wrote:

I think it's a trash app and if you care about your fellow writers, you wouldn't use it for any commercial gain or contest of SKILL, full stop. Typing sentences into an AI bot isn't a skill. 

I have no respect for writing AI. Use your brain. Read a book. Take a walk. Do your own research. It's not even good as a search index tool because it will confidently lie to you. 


This x 1,000,000!

AI 'art' is anti art and anti artists. If you don't want to write your own story or create your own art, that's fine. But don't ruin it for those of us who do. I wish this app and those like it a speedy death. 

Sadly, when was the last time anyone with evil intent thought about others.

I'm interested in talking about it because it's here now, it's already having an impact, and the impact of all AI is going to have a massive impact in the near future. My favourite was of dealing with it is to discuss it and think about it to figure out what life will be like, the pros and cons, and how we can best adapt.

It's not inherently evil. Not that you were saying it was. It's more like a knife. An incredibly useful, versatile tool that can be used for harm. Sometimes unwittingly.

I think plagiarising artists' work to form AI's initial learning IS evil, in the immoral, unethical and greed-driven sense. There may be some practical uses for this for people who are missing the point, such as writing boring commercial/corporate copy etc. But then what's the point of writing as an expressive form if we're bombarded with an infinite stream of unconsciously produced words?

I'm a copywriter by profession and a writer of fiction by passion, so needless to say, I absolutely loathe this. 

I hear ya. And I can see why this would be far more personal for you.

I think they're on a quest to build something useful for humanity. I'm sure they also hate when people use what they've created for nefarious ends. I sure would. But like my knife analogy, it's such a broad tool it's not surprising it could be used for.. less than noble pursuits.

And it has infinite benevolent purposes. Sure, you can use it to plagiarize someone's work, but that's immoral as if you had done it yourself by hand. Since it came out I've used it to learn a new programming language, help me debug code, think up tavern names for a roleplaying game, entertained by daughter, analyzed great works of fiction I haven't found the time to read yet and asked it a hundred specific and inane follow up questions to get a better understanding of it, and I've barely scratched the surface.

I agree that the morality of training it on such a wide swath of work, especially without permission, is a concern.

That's what we do as humans. We take in everything we can find. We read, we watch, we look at images, we listen, and from that we create something new, all heavily coloured by what we've experienced in our lives. I bet the people who created ChatGPT feel like that's what they're doing. Training something to learn like we do, by experiencing the world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (5) Thanks(5)   Quote timmytimtimothy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 1:35am
Originally posted by copperdogma copperdogma wrote:

I hear ya. And I can see why this would be far more personal for you.

I think they're on a quest to build something useful for humanity. I'm sure they also hate when people use what they've created for nefarious ends. I sure would. But like my knife analogy, it's such a broad tool it's not surprising it could be used for.. less than noble pursuits.

And it has infinite benevolent purposes. Sure, you can use it to plagiarize someone's work, but that's immoral as if you had done it yourself by hand. Since it came out I've used it to learn a new programming language, help me debug code, think up tavern names for a roleplaying game, entertained by daughter, analyzed great works of fiction I haven't found the time to read yet and asked it a hundred specific and inane follow up questions to get a better understanding of it, and I've barely scratched the surface.

I agree that the morality of training it on such a wide swath of work, especially without permission, is a concern.

That's what we do as humans. We take in everything we can find. We read, we watch, we look at images, we listen, and from that we create something new, all heavily coloured by what we've experienced in our lives. I bet the people who created ChatGPT feel like that's what they're doing. Training something to learn like we do, by experiencing the world.


I love your optimism. Alas, I can't help but feel robbing humans of their creative expression is despicable. There are already too many good stories/books in the world for us to read in a lifetime. What becomes of them when there is complete and total saturation of AI-produced work? They get lost in the sea, and so do our voices. Humanity has more to lose than to gain from outsourcing all the things that make us human to AI. 

Edited by timmytimtimothy - 17 Jan 2023 at 1:37am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote taaaylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 2:35pm
Saw this on my reddit trawling today. I feel it's relevant: https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/10e9639/this_song_sucks_nick_cave_responds_to_chatgpt/j4q5ge6/

And, to be honest, proof of the lack of moral ethic of people using ChatGPT. It has been trained on this musician's lyrics without his consent. It's an insult to art AND it's outright theft. Even massive artists can't protect their IP. What hope do the rest of us have? Please stop using this bot. It doesn't even have the means to detect if copyrighted information is poured into it 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MuffinMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 3:29pm
I did the same thing as you, and I have to say I was very much not impressed with the results. I don't see any of these stories written by ChatGPT winning any contest. I did several prompts. 

Way too much passive voice: "Once there was a young woman..."

Not very impressive plots - the story about a comedy with the action of shampooing hair was just a woman who shampooed her hair with dish soap. Not only was it not original, it also wasn't funny.

I haven't tried asking for a twist. Did you feel like that made it better? It wouldn't improve the passive voice, though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote copperdogma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by MuffinMom MuffinMom wrote:

I did the same thing as you, and I have to say I was very much not impressed with the results. I don't see any of these stories written by ChatGPT winning any contest. I did several prompts. 

Way too much passive voice: "Once there was a young woman..."

Not very impressive plots - the story about a comedy with the action of shampooing hair was just a woman who shampooed her hair with dish soap. Not only was it not original, it also wasn't funny.

I haven't tried asking for a twist. Did you feel like that made it better? It wouldn't improve the passive voice, though.

Oh my no. It writes mostly terrible stories;)

If it never got any better, the creative writers of the world wouldn't have to give it a second thought.

It gets more interesting when you realize how fast it's evolved, and it's accelerating.

And it's main purpose isn't to write stories. In fact, I'm not even sure it has a main purpose.

My wife is watching British baking shows and asked why the British always seem to use self-rising flour. I had no idea so we googled it. No real answer in the top 20 links. ChatGTP, because it has a sense of understanding, knew the answer: it's mostly tradition.

I found that interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote taaaylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by copperdogma copperdogma wrote:

Originally posted by MuffinMom MuffinMom wrote:

I did the same thing as you, and I have to say I was very much not impressed with the results. I don't see any of these stories written by ChatGPT winning any contest. I did several prompts. 

Way too much passive voice: "Once there was a young woman..."

Not very impressive plots - the story about a comedy with the action of shampooing hair was just a woman who shampooed her hair with dish soap. Not only was it not original, it also wasn't funny.

I haven't tried asking for a twist. Did you feel like that made it better? It wouldn't improve the passive voice, though.

Oh my no. It writes mostly terrible stories;)

If it never got any better, the creative writers of the world wouldn't have to give it a second thought.

It gets more interesting when you realize how fast it's evolved, and it's accelerating.

And it's main purpose isn't to write stories. In fact, I'm not even sure it has a main purpose.

My wife is watching British baking shows and asked why the British always seem to use self-rising flour. I had no idea so we googled it. No real answer in the top 20 links. ChatGTP, because it has a sense of understanding, knew the answer: it's mostly tradition.

I found that interesting.

This is a really cool* example of ChatGPT being confidently dead wrong. Try using quotes around a word to preserve the spelling so Google doesn't return "self-raising" and "self-rising" as interchangeable spelling variations as they are different types of flour.

It's self-raising flour in the UK, and it's used because it contains a very specific ratio of baking soda to flour: https://topwithcinnamon.com/how-to-make-self-raising-flour/

Quote Self-raising flour (a.k.a. self-rising flour in the US) is a common ingredient in English baking recipes, typically used for scones, pancakes and Victoria sponge cakes. It is simply a pre-mixed combination of raising agents and flour so that you don’t need to add baking powder or bicarbonate of soda to your recipe

*by cool, I mean not even remotely cool. Don't trust the robot.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote copperdogma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2023 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by taaaylor taaaylor wrote:

This is a really cool* example of ChatGPT being confidently dead wrong. Try using quotes around a word to preserve the spelling so Google doesn't return "self-raising" and "self-rising" as interchangeable spelling variations as they are different types of flour.

It's self-raising flour in the UK, and it's used because it contains a very specific ratio of baking soda to flour: https://topwithcinnamon.com/how-to-make-self-raising-flour/

Quote Self-raising flour (a.k.a. self-rising flour in the US) is a common ingredient in English baking recipes, typically used for scones, pancakes and Victoria sponge cakes. It is simply a pre-mixed combination of raising agents and flour so that you don’t need to add baking powder or bicarbonate of soda to your recipe

*by cool, I mean not even remotely cool. Don't trust the robot.


Oh sorry I must not have explained it very well. Here was the actual interaction:

ME: Why is self-rising flour more popular in britain?

CHATGPT: Self-rising flour is more popular in the United Kingdom, particularly in traditional British cooking, because it was historically used in recipes for quick breads and biscuits. These types of recipes do not require the precise measurements of baking powder and salt that other recipes may need. Additionally, self-rising flour was more readily available in the UK, and was therefore used more often in cooking. The convenience of self-rising flour also made it a popular choice for home cooks.


But you're right -- I'm not sure if that answer is actually correct. That's one of the things I'm fascinated with: How trustworthy is it and in what circumstances? That will drastically inform how widely its used and for what.


Edited by copperdogma - 17 Jan 2023 at 3:49pm
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