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NMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (4) Thanks(4)   Quote NMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by Deschain Deschain wrote:

If someone asks ChatGPT to help with something they could otherwise ask a beta for, is it really any different? Personally I think not, but I'm sure other people disagree. Anyway, all I can control is my own process.


Beta's (spouses, children, friends, forum spreadsheet volunteers) have helped me to clarify my thoughts, but have never written the story for me. They made sure what is in my head is actually coming across to others clearly. They have helped with grammar and supported or vetoed creative attempts. Ultimately it is my choice to take the advice or ignore it. I am not sure how that would be considered cheating?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by NMiller NMiller wrote:

Originally posted by Deschain Deschain wrote:

If someone asks ChatGPT to help with something they could otherwise ask a beta for, is it really any different? Personally I think not, but I'm sure other people disagree. Anyway, all I can control is my own process.


Beta's (spouses, children, friends, forum spreadsheet volunteers) have helped me to clarify my thoughts, but have never written the story for me. They made sure what is in my head is actually coming across to others clearly. They have helped with grammar and supported or vetoed creative attempts. Ultimately it is my choice to take the advice or ignore it. I am not sure how that would be considered cheating?

I have to agree with Mr. Miller. A beta reader is nothing like having some else write a story for you and then claim it as your own. Getting advice on your piece, being told you have used a word too many times in close proximity, add a comma, is not cheating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deschain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by NMiller NMiller wrote:

Beta's (spouses, children, friends, forum spreadsheet volunteers) have helped me to clarify my thoughts, but have never written the story for me. They made sure what is in my head is actually coming across to others clearly. They have helped with grammar and supported or vetoed creative attempts. Ultimately it is my choice to take the advice or ignore it. I am not sure how that would be considered cheating?

I didn't say it was cheating. It isn't against the rules, so it's not cheating. It's just a different process than mine. But I personally don't see much difference between asking ChatGPT to check your grammar versus asking a beta to check your grammar.

Remember, people (like me) joining the contest for the first time probably haven't even heard of betas, so it's a competitive advantage, particularly for the betas who are also part of NYCM and have knowledge of what judges look for. There isn't anything inherently wrong about competitive advantages. Just competing in a handful of contests is a competitive advantage over newcomers. But at the same time, I don't see a difference between a newcomer asking ChatGPT to check their grammar instead of asking a friend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deschain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:

I have to agree with Mr. Miller. A beta reader is nothing like having some else write a story for you and then claim it as your own. Getting advice on your piece, being told you have used a word too many times in close proximity, add a comma, is not cheating.

Just to be clear, I am specifically talking about asking ChatGPT to do a task you would otherwise ask a beta. I am not suggesting that having ChatGPT write your story is equivalent to getting advice from a beta.

Also I am not saying/insinuating that using a beta is cheating. It's not against the rules, and therefore it's not cheating.


Edited by Deschain - 13 Jan 2023 at 11:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Popsicle Crows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 11:34pm
Yeah, beta reader and AI are totally different things, the rules on second opinions are irrelevant.
Betas give an opinion on something created from a writer's mind whereas AI programs do the entire writer's job.
Not even vaguely close to the same thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Popsicle Crows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2023 at 11:42pm
On a brighter note, the people behind that app are putting trackers similar to watermarks into the work generated by their app to help foil people who would try to pass off AI work as their own. That's good news.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deschain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2023 at 12:03am
Originally posted by Popsicle Crows Popsicle Crows wrote:

Yeah, beta reader and AI are totally different things, the rules on second opinions are irrelevant.
Betas give an opinion on something created from a writer's mind whereas AI programs do the entire writer's job.
Not even vaguely close to the same thing.

As I said, I am specifically talking about asking ChatGPT to do a task you'd ask a beta to do.

I am not talking about ChatGPT writing someone's story for them.

I am specifically asking if people think there's a difference between:
(1) asking ChatGPT to check the grammar of a story you wrote
(2) asking a beta to check the grammar of a story you wrote


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote taaaylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2023 at 12:10am
Originally posted by Deschain Deschain wrote:

Originally posted by Popsicle Crows Popsicle Crows wrote:

Yeah, beta reader and AI are totally different things, the rules on second opinions are irrelevant.
Betas give an opinion on something created from a writer's mind whereas AI programs do the entire writer's job.
Not even vaguely close to the same thing.

As I said, I am specifically talking about asking ChatGPT to do a task you'd ask a beta to do.

I am not talking about ChatGPT writing someone's story for them.

I am specifically asking if people think there's a difference between:
(1) asking ChatGPT to check the grammar of a story you wrote
(2) asking a beta to check the grammar of a story you wrote


I'm pretty sure anything you upload to ChatGPT, you're giving it permission to disseminate and reproduce your text as often as possible in whatever means the AI deems fit. I don't think it's cheating, as some people do need external programs to adapt to disability (e.g. Grammarly). However, I think it's highly ill-advised to upload your own work there unless you like giving away unlimited rights for the bot to reproduce your work in perpetuity 



Edited by taaaylor - 14 Jan 2023 at 12:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Popsicle Crows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2023 at 12:10am
I was specifically talking about people using it to do the work for them.

To answer your question though, a fellow writer wouldn't make the mistake of sanitizing someone's writing and a beta reader gives an opinion so you don't have to take their advice/opinion. 
The big story about this AI program isn't about using it as a stand in for WORD MS grammar checker. Most common writing software already has something to check spelling and grammar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Popsicle Crows Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2023 at 12:19am
A professional editor wouldn't trust that program either. No nuance. Much like how bias can creep into AI in most other applications, it's only as good as the things that go into it. So that would be everything from near-illiterate sources to obselete language and styles to very boring to absolutely great. The great writing it learns from would be statistically insignificant otherwise everyone would be a published author. 
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