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I THINK I SCREWED MYSELF!

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Scribeaholic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scribeaholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 12:51pm
For all anyone knows, you have written a script that the judges will deem a winner and you'll be propelled into the next round and beyond on the merits. But at the risk of being the scold in the chat room, I'll repeat what I said in the other thread about the offensiveness of your material, because it's an important point that repeatedly gets ignored or distorted by participants in the discussion, including the author, in what has amounted to an astonishing display of truly repugnant, infantile intellectual behavior.

Your screenplay presents a carelessly dishonest portrait of Hitler. Period. Full stop. It sanitizes, it conceals, it lies. That he had a banal or uninteresting side is not being contested by anyone. But presented by itself in a work of fiction, with his other aspects censored, as you do, indisputably, it is worthless counterfactualism at best, a sick fanboy revisionism at worst. 

The moral of your screenplay is that a subordinate's loyalty to a psychopathic, genocidal dictator reflects a virtuous universal truth about the sanctity of friendship. That is not just a historically false account of Speer and Hitler's relationship, but a morally offensive idea -- one that was not lost on the judges at Nuremberg who sentenced Speer to 20 years in prison for his actions in service of that so-called friendship. The author repeatedly dodges this charge with hysterical pleas of ignorance, hand-cleansing caveats about his "bullsh*t" (his word) research, rank-pulling theatrics, and obnoxious Victorian-style swooning about bad chat room manners and the sullying of his good name in a forum where he volunteered his work for critique. His allies follow suit with a rogue's gallery of equally pathetic subject changers, up to and including every faux-intellectual's favorite device in Nazi-related matters, the invocation of Hannah Arendt and a phrase of hers that bears no relation to the matter at hand.

If you fancy yourself an intellectually honest person, answer the substance of the critique. The rest is just masturbation.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ykchris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 1:47pm
Scribeaholic, I think you are missing something important in your critique. The true Hitler archetype (unbalanced, violent and unquestionably evil) is actually ever present in this piece and underlies the tension throughout. From the maid that screams in the presence of Hitler, to the military questioning of the deranged public rallies, to the many characters' expectation that irrational, violent retribution will result from any slight - the proper acceptance of the archetype is actually evident throughout the piece. In fact, the reader/audience is also led to believe that this will have a revisionist ending, with Hitler just as likely to kill Speer for his slight (not answering the phone). The fact that he does not (surprising the other characters in the piece) is just a twist on where the author has clearly been leading, using the preexisting and universal acceptance that Hitler was completely deranged and evil.

Just my thoughts. I do agree that this subject matter demands respect, and I believe that respect does underlie this piece.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NilesPerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 2:12pm
Scribeaholic -- the forums were designed for competitors to post their works and receive critiques from their peers. They were not designed to be battlegrounds. Albeit, not all critiques have to be filled with sunshine and roses, and writers must take the bad with the good, bit you have gone beyond the boundaries of criticism and launched an all-out assault against both the writer of the script in question and the script itself. Diplomacy is obviously not one of your strong points, and you should brush up on what exactly makes up a good critique that's well thought out and constructive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scribeaholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 2:19pm
I commend ykchris for offering a rebuttal on the merits, although I disagree with it. I do not deny that an element of unbalanced personality lies in the portrayal; my critique rests on the idea that these personality details, good and ill, come off as trite in a context that is fundamentally ahistorical while passing itself off as the opposite. It is Nazism filtered through the lens of Disney. Playing with audience expectations in this framework -- will he or won't he punish Speer for going off grid -- has no dramatic payoff, no moral reveal, because it negates the possibility of true audience investment by its own structure. Knowing the historical truth about Speer, I have no care about the resolution of the story. It is a fireworks display without a marking occasion.

The work exists for itself as an exercise in grandiose puppetry that amounts to an extremely short-sighted and vulgar manner of dramatization.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scribeaholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 2:23pm
NilesPerry, in contrast to ykchris, resorts to the lecturious moralizing that is common among participants who are too illiterate to participate in the discussion on the merits. Rather than trying to recognize the important moral stakes, NP takes to his/her pulpit of sanctimony waving a bible or Miss Manners rulebook of screenwriting decorum or whatever holy text he/she slavishly subordinates to, and solemnly laments the lack of comity in a discussion he clearly does not understand. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBA Lehane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 3:13pm
Yeah I remember it well Scott - and always felt bad about it!  I gave you hard time about posting a script after you got a good score.  But as you say, we quickly mended that fence, and I think we had a mutual respect after that.  I've not been around on the forums a lot these past few years...so apologies I missed these posts.

As for the whole Historical Fiction thing...I think that whole "debate" went down in NYCM folklore! :) One of the great ongoing threads...it most probably led to NYCM introducing genre definitions.  I still say me and Scarlet were right all along.  ;) 

Scarlet so sorry I never got a chance to read this. I'll try and do that in a bit.  You will remember we both joined in the same year (2010) and supported each other during our first Short Screenplay Challenge. Funnily enough, my script in that first one was the Death Train Express -  a horror set on board a train load of jews going to a concentration camp.  Despite the brilliant response it got in the forum, the judges felt otherwise and I got hammered for the theme by some, with one even being vocally opposed to a script with Nazi's in it.  So I'm not surprised if you've fallen foul of this 7 years on!  

I'll try and be a better forumite again!


Originally posted by NilesPerry NilesPerry wrote:

Originally posted by Scarlet Screenwriter Scarlet Screenwriter wrote:

Young Scott ...

I always thought your name was Niles ... go figure ...

Thanks for your comments and reassurance.  I was just being paranoid.  I'd never been attacked by another contestant like that ... especially one who had a top score in the previous round.

I can't recall putting a wrong foot with you ... I know Darren and I went into bat a few years back for Historical Fiction being a proper genre and not open to stuff like vampires and fantasy creatures ... was it that?  I never bear a grudge ...

I dropped heaps of C-Bombs in my round one screenplay, but that's only because it's a regular part of speech in Australia ... and the UK.  Still got 10 points.  I've skirted the fine line a few times, I guess ... cannibalism, child molesting ... but always off camera or alluded to.

You in the Short Story comp, starts tomorrow?  I know Round three for screenplay (if we score enough) is next week.  Busy fortnight.

Good luck.

Randall ...


No, it wasn't over the historical fiction/vampires, etc. discussion. It was just me being a forum newbie and being tactless and getting called out on it by you, Darren and several others, and rightly so. We've long since mended that fence. I don't hold grudges either...

Yes, I do believe you were being paranoid, but considering your cast of characters, you should have anticipated SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE being rubbed the wrong way. Goes with the territory, you know?I'm glad now you see it as such and aren't stressing over it.

As for the Short Story competition... I'm just not ready for that one yet. It's not my chosen form of writing. I gave it a shot last year and went down in flames, which just re-affirmed that I'm not ready to tackle that challenge yet. One day, though. One day. Just not tomorrow. :)

And yes, funny about the screen name... you have consistently called me Niles, but that's just the name of a fictional character from a favorite novel. Opening your reply with "Young Scott" was hilarious, as my surname is Young! I had a good chuckle over that.

And also yes, what did you call it? A busy fortnight? You have the Short Story challenge starting tomorrow and the next round of screenwriting next week (I'm confident you'll be moving on)... I've got next week's challenge and Create50's latest project occupying my creative slate. The year has started off quite busily. Let's hope it's rewarding for both of us. :D


Edited by DBA Lehane - 30 Jan 2017 at 3:14pm
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DBA Lehane View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DBA Lehane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by Scribeaholic Scribeaholic wrote:

"lecturious moralizing"

Pot kettle black anyone?
FFC 2015 4th Placed Finaist | SSC 2014 + 2016 Finalist
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NilesPerry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NilesPerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by DBA Lehane DBA Lehane wrote:

Originally posted by Scribeaholic Scribeaholic wrote:

"lecturious moralizing"

Pot kettle black anyone?

Nice one, Darren. LOL

Great hearing from you after all this time. Congrats on moving on to the current round. I made it, too, so we'll see how things go. Good luck to you.

Hey, while I'm thinking about it... remember that short script you wrote that I thought was hilarious? The inmate preparing for release into society and didn't know anything about modern technology? Any chance I can get a copy of that. It's one I'd love to keep for my files.
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Scribeaholic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scribeaholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 8:25pm
and thus DBA Lehane joins the rogue's gallery of brit-twits who know not of which they speak.
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NilesPerry View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NilesPerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2017 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by Scribeaholic Scribeaholic wrote:

and thus DBA Lehane joins the rogue's gallery of brit-twits who know not of which they speak.
And who's the twit now? DBA is, indeed, a British citizen. However, Scarlet happens to be a citizen of Australia. And I live in the State of Nevada in the good old United States. I see you're in NY. No wonder you're so abrasive. Probably one of the fools who voted for Trump.

Didn't do as well on the second challenge, now, did you Jason? Only 10 this time, was it? Knocked down a few pegs, eh? Not feeling so smug as you were with that 15 in the first challenge?

Why not crawl back under your rock of ignorance and quick stinking up the forums with your noxious comments and attitude?
"What a day! What a lovely day!"
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