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Suave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by sootfoot5 sootfoot5 wrote:

So if you received negative criticism but it was done in a funny way would that be okay?  Like, if a judge, instead of being harsh, joked with you about how he or she thought you needed improvement instead of saying "you suck" would that be better?It seems like it might, but are judges supposed to joke?  No.

But then, on the same point, some people might say that comedy groups, like Sat Night Live, are criticizing the President when they do parodies of him.  Do you consider parody to be criticism?  It is usually done to make a point even though it is done in a comedic manner.  How do you feel about that? 

I appreciate what you say about erring on the side of caution, but then, how can another person know a person's feelings when they've been judging or doing whatever, to people the same way for years?  Then one person suddenly cries about it.  If you put yourself out there and want to be judged, isn't it rather like putting your words here in the forum -- that people may turn around and agree with you, laugh at you, whatever, because you put them in our "little home of a general public's eye."

I'm just throwing out ideas and concepts.  Just wondering what you think.  




I think you have missed the point of constructive critique. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2017 at 9:05pm
I was thinking about this earlier today, Suave, and I remembered a children's book I read many years ago. It was about a group of kids who went on vacation. Two of them were excited to take an art class from a famous artist. 

To one girl, the art teacher kept saying, "Try harder! You aren't focusing on your art. You're rushing. I need you to really put more effort into what you're doing." 

To the other girl, he kept saying, "Very good, very good. Keep it up." 

The former girl got demoralized and finally asked him if he thought she was a no-talent artist. He said, "Of course I don't think so! You have lots of talent, and that's why I've been pushing you so hard." 

The latter girl was only skilled at drawing cute bunnies and such. The teacher knew it would be pointless to give her any feedback. 

If anyone out there can name this book (fun trivia question!), I'll be really impressed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sootfoot5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2017 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:

Originally posted by sootfoot5 sootfoot5 wrote:

So if you received negative criticism but it was done in a funny way would that be okay?  Like, if a judge, instead of being harsh, joked with you about how he or she thought you needed improvement instead of saying "you suck" would that be better?It seems like it might, but are judges supposed to joke?  No.

But then, on the same point, some people might say that comedy groups, like Sat Night Live, are criticizing the President when they do parodies of him.  Do you consider parody to be criticism?  It is usually done to make a point even though it is done in a comedic manner.  How do you feel about that? 

I appreciate what you say about erring on the side of caution, but then, how can another person know a person's feelings when they've been judging or doing whatever, to people the same way for years?  Then one person suddenly cries about it.  If you put yourself out there and want to be judged, isn't it rather like putting your words here in the forum -- that people may turn around and agree with you, laugh at you, whatever, because you put them in our "little home of a general public's eye."

I'm just throwing out ideas and concepts.  Just wondering what you think.  




I think you have missed the point of constructive critique. 

and I don't think you understand why I'm asking.  so if the gentleman who originally wrote to the judge wants to answer, great, if not, that's cool too.  But I didn't miss the point.  I have a different point.  Which will unfold if he wants to discuss it.  But if he doesn't, no problem.  But I didn't miss the point at all -- I'm merely taking my question to him in a new direction.  People do that you know.  

Actually, I don't care if you want to answer the question too.  Could be interesting.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2017 at 10:08am
Originally posted by Zelda Zelda wrote:

I was thinking about this earlier today, Suave, and I remembered a children's book I read many years ago. It was about a group of kids who went on vacation. Two of them were excited to take an art class from a famous artist. 

To one girl, the art teacher kept saying, "Try harder! You aren't focusing on your art. You're rushing. I need you to really put more effort into what you're doing." 

To the other girl, he kept saying, "Very good, very good. Keep it up." 

The former girl got demoralized and finally asked him if he thought she was a no-talent artist. He said, "Of course I don't think so! You have lots of talent, and that's why I've been pushing you so hard." 

The latter girl was only skilled at drawing cute bunnies and such. The teacher knew it would be pointless to give her any feedback. 

If anyone out there can name this book (fun trivia question!), I'll be really impressed. 


Sorry, I have no idea of the book.  The rant of the judge really only told me he was determined to let me know he thought my story was crap.  Most of what he was harping on was excatly how I had tried to write it, lol.  I am not a whiner, I can take criticism, I don't take kindly to anonymous slaming that seemed to me to be more for his own enjoyment than to help anyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote nixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2017 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by sootfoot5 sootfoot5 wrote:

Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:



I think you have missed the point of constructive critique. 

and I don't think you understand why I'm asking.  so if the gentleman who originally wrote to the judge wants to answer, great, if not, that's cool too.  But I didn't miss the point.  I have a different point.  Which will unfold if he wants to discuss it.  But if he doesn't, no problem.  But I didn't miss the point at all -- I'm merely taking my question to him in a new direction.  People do that you know.  

Actually, I don't care if you want to answer the question too.  Could be interesting.  

Suave *is the gentleman who started this thread, Sooty.  Unless you are referring to the other gentleman and intended the response for the other thread. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2017 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:



Sorry, I have no idea of the book.  The rant of the judge really only told me he was determined to let me know he thought my story was crap.  Most of what he was harping on was excatly how I had tried to write it, lol.  I am not a whiner, I can take criticism, I don't take kindly to anonymous slaming that seemed to me to be more for his own enjoyment than to help anyone.

I agree. I read the feedback, and it seemed like a personal attack, especially the part about your writer's desperation. (Geez!) I just thought I'd share that story because I hoped it would let you know you have talent. Smile

Earlier today I received very critical feedback (at my writer's critique group) and now I'm demoralized. I'd like to act all like, "Oh, I'm fine. I can take constructive criticism," but the truth is, YIKES!! Shocked


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2017 at 11:56am
Originally posted by Zelda Zelda wrote:

Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:



Sorry, I have no idea of the book.  The rant of the judge really only told me he was determined to let me know he thought my story was crap.  Most of what he was harping on was excatly how I had tried to write it, lol.  I am not a whiner, I can take criticism, I don't take kindly to anonymous slaming that seemed to me to be more for his own enjoyment than to help anyone.

I agree. I read the feedback, and it seemed like a personal attack, especially the part about your writer's desperation. (Geez!) I just thought I'd share that story because I hoped it would let you know you have talent. Smile

Earlier today I received very critical feedback (at my writer's critique group) and now I'm demoralized. I'd like to act all like, "Oh, I'm fine. I can take constructive criticism," but the truth is, YIKES!! Shocked


Sorry to hear that.  Thanks for encouragement! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sootfoot5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 9:01pm
Dear Mr. Suave:

My fault was not specifically addressing my question to Mr. MattrickBT.  I wrongfully assumed that the way my question was written and where it fell in the order of posts that it would obvious to whom it was addressed.  

Mr. MattrickBT had stated he felt there was no such thing as bad criticism.  He and Miss Shrifty were having this discussion which I was attempting to join in on.  

I apologize for any confusion I caused on your thread.  

Respectfully, 

Madam Sootfoot5
(too old to be a Miss)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2017 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by sootfoot5 sootfoot5 wrote:

Dear Mr. Suave:

My fault was not specifically addressing my question to Mr. MattrickBT.  I wrongfully assumed that the way my question was written and where it fell in the order of posts that it would obvious to whom it was addressed.  

Mr. MattrickBT had stated he felt there was no such thing as bad criticism.  He and Miss Shrifty were having this discussion which I was attempting to join in on.  

I apologize for any confusion I caused on your thread.  

Respectfully, 

Madam Sootfoot5
(too old to be a Miss)


Haha, no prob here, I thought that might be the case - not that you are too old to be a miss, the other part.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by Suave Suave wrote:

Originally posted by Bottlerocket23 Bottlerocket23 wrote:

I got 3 points on my round 1 story. The feedback was really nice and encouraging and left me wondering if all that was true, why did I only get 3 points? So honestly I'd rather get "mean" feedback that actually tells me something. I take all criticism/encouragement with a grain of salt, anyway.


I think what would have helped you would be if in the feedback they included the % they gave for each area of judging that they list in the rules.  For some reason they don't do that.  Don't think it would be too hard to list that beside each judges number as 10/10/50 out of whatever it is 15/15/70 for full marks sounds familiar.


I decided to ask someone at NYC why they don't include how the story scored, this is what i got back.

Hi Timothy,
I'm sorry again for taking so long to respond!  Including the scores is something we have considered in the past, but the main reason we have not done so yet is because we don't want to place too much of an emphasis on the overall score.  While we are a competition and want everyone participating on a level playing field, the score is solely meant to help us determine winners based on the rules and alotted percentages.  The competition is meant to be an inspiring experience, and we don't want participants getting too caught up in the overall score (i.e. getting discouraged with low scores).  

We do hope the feedback from the judges provides insight into why the story may or may not have scored well, but we realize this isn't always the case with some judges and are always looking to improve our feedback methods and judging roster.  Please let us know if you have any other questions or thoughts on the competition, both positive or negative.  Sorry again for taking so long to respond and thank you for your feedback and participation!


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Charlie Weisman
Competition Director
NYC Midnight, LLC
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